Help!!! Old fuse panel is insane!!

[TNGuy81]

Im tring to help my neighbor out with his shop running a new circuit for a air compressor and I am not sure what to do. He wired this scary beast up back in 85 he said and I am amazed it had not burnt down. Its a 60amp sub panel fuse box run with 10awg for starters... 2nd. Its bonded and I know sub panels arent suppose to be bonded (not sure what to do.) Next the whip from the compressor is 10/3. From the receptacle to the fuse box is 10/2 with ground!! I jiggled the wire around just a little and it started arching. Apparently he is using the bare wire as a neutral. Then when I put the dead front back onto the panel I blew up a wire. A bare copper wire inside the panel had hit the dead front and it blew in half! Apparently it was never screwed on the entire time. He caught me off guard with out my meter or anything but Im going back in tomorrow to look again but I need some pro advice before I start. Also he is moving the compressor outside. Should I ground it with a grounding rod or to the frame of the shop or what? Thanks for any advise. I mainly do commercial and have never ran across this kinda application before. Thanks

 

[TNGuy81]

P.S. I can take some pictures tomorrow and post them if that will help.

 

[LEO2854]

Im tring to help my neighbor out with his shop running a new circuit for a air compressor and I am not sure what to do. He wired this scary beast up back in 85 he said and I am amazed it had not burnt down. Its a 60amp sub panel fuse box run with 10awg for starters... 2nd. Its bonded and I know sub panels arent suppose to be bonded (not sure what to do.) Next the whip from the compressor is 10/3. From the receptacle to the fuse box is 10/2 with ground!! I jiggled the wire around just a little and it started arching. Apparently he is using the bare wire as a neutral. Then when I put the dead front back onto the panel I blew up a wire. A bare copper wire inside the panel had hit the dead front and it blew in half! Apparently it was never screwed on the entire time. He caught me off guard with out my meter or anything but Im going back in tomorrow to look again but I need some pro advice before I start. Also he is moving the compressor outside. Should I ground it with a grounding rod or to the frame of the shop or what? Thanks for any advise. I mainly do commercial and have never ran across this kinda application before. Thanks

Sometimes it would help to bring a second set of eyes with you ,bring another Electrician with you to have a look it is worth a few bucks to get a second opinion ..sometimes i will do that myself.
As for the commpressor you just need an Equipment ground conductor run with the your circuit that feeds the commpresor.

It looks like you have a service change to do.:grin:

 

[TNGuy81]

A 2nd set of eyes would be great but Im not sure I can get anyone out here is the problem and a service upgrade is not going to happen. Its a very budget friendly neighbor thing which was suppose to be a easy job of just running a new circuit for this air compressor (he wants it moved outside) and now I find all this stuff. Its really hard to explain to someone like my neighbor how its been working all this time just fine for 25 years(i dont understand how either) and convince him its all wrong. I know #6 was suppose to be ran to feed it and I dont even understand how #10 has made it this long and I dont understand why or how the panel is bonded and working with zero insulated wires as a return. The only thing I could think of was I may of mistaken that white wire in he whip from the compressor as a neutral and its really a ground?? But that still doesnt explain the panel or the receptacle. The air compressor is old school 40 years old he said so Im not sure.

 

[LEO2854]

A 2nd set of eyes would be great but Im not sure I can get anyone out here is the problem and a service upgrade is not going to happen. Its a very budget friendly neighbor thing which was suppose to be a easy job of just running a new circuit for this air compressor (he wants it moved outside) and now I find all this stuff. Its really hard to explain to someone like my neighbor how its been working all this time just fine for 25 years(i dont understand how either) and convince him its all wrong. I know #6 was suppose to be ran to feed it and I dont even understand how #10 has made it this long and I dont understand why or how the panel is bonded and working with zero insulated wires as a return. The only thing I could think of was I may of mistaken that white wire in he whip from the compressor as a neutral and its really a ground?? But that still doesnt explain the panel or the receptacle. The air compressor is old school 40 years old he said so Im not sure.

"A 2nd set of eyes would be great but Im not sure I can get anyone out here is the problem".

Money will get you some help
There are to many safty hazards in play.
It does not matter if it worked for 25 years someone can be killed by all these hazards.
You do not want to see your neighbors House burn down at 3AM some day how will you live with yourself.
Do you work for an Electrical contractor? Maby you can ask your boss to take a look

 

[jumper]

Is this shop attached to the house?

 

[TNGuy81]

Money will get you some help
There are to many safty hazards in play.
It does not matter if it worked for 25 years someone can be killed by all these hazards.
You do not want to see your neighbors House burn down at 3AM some day how will you live with yourself.
Do you work for an Electrical contractor? Maby you can ask your boss to take a look

I have no money and I got laid off 2 weeks ago. I got you guys though:grin:
No I dont want it to burn down at all!! Im debating messing with it now but I already know its got problems so I cant just back off then I really would fell bad. Im gonna call a buddy of mine and try to get him out here to see whats up. Ill report back later. I got to go help hand some drywall for my brother in law.

The garage is detached from the house. That was another thing I mentioned to him was it needed a grounding rod... I got into a mess here.. But he pulled power from the house on the outside of the house the main.

 

[LEO2854]

I have no money and I got laid off 2 weeks ago. I got you guys though:grin:
No I dont want it to burn down at all!! Im debating messing with it now but I already know its got problems so I cant just back off then I really would fell bad. Im gonna call a buddy of mine and try to get him out here to see whats up. Ill report back later. I got to go help hand some drywall for my brother in law.

The garage is detached from the house. That was another thing I mentioned to him was it needed a grounding rod... I got into a mess here.. But he pulled power from the house on the outside of the house the main.

Here's a link to your state's Electrical rules i hope it will help youhttp://tennessee.gov/commerce/boards/contractors/electrician.shtml

 

[iaov]

This whole mess needs to be re-done. It is a disaster waiting to happen. It is a fairly typical installation for people that have twisted 2 speaker wires together once and now think they are electricians.:grin:

 

[Cavie]

I have no money and I got laid off 2 weeks ago. I got you guys though:grin:
No I dont want it to burn down at all!! Im debating messing with it now but I already know its got problems so I cant just back off then I really would fell bad. Im gonna call a buddy of mine and try to get him out here to see whats up. Ill report back later. I got to go help hand some drywall for my brother in law.

The garage is detached from the house. That was another thing I mentioned to him was it needed a grounding rod... I got into a mess here.. But he pulled power from the house on the outside of the house the main.

Get an electrician to look at it. It does have issues but some things may be ok. If 220v, there is no neutral required at the compressor. #10 may be fine for the load. What is the load. Is it a sub panel or a disconect?? Get an electrican to have a look.

 

[R Schick]

I used to work for a guy who stated: "The most expensive thing you can do for someone is a favor.":roll:

 

[TNGuy81]

I got my buddy(journey man) to look at it today and we are going to upgrade the sub-panel with a 60amp breaker box and remove the old fuse box and wires. He had a small box and we are doing it for a good price for my neighbor. It will be up to code and pass inspection when we are done. He convinced the home owner that it was far from right and totally unsafe (thank god because i didnt want to work on it) so its a done deal. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jumper]

I got my buddy(journey man) to look at it today and we are going to upgrade the sub-panel with a 60amp breaker box and remove the old fuse box and wires. He had a small box and we are doing it for a good price for my neighbor. It will be up to code and pass inspection when we are done. He convinced the home owner that it was far from right and totally unsafe (thank god because i didnt want to work on it) so its a done deal. Thanks for the advice.

Good deal. Cool.

 

[LEO2854]

I got my buddy(journey man) to look at it today and we are going to upgrade the sub-panel with a 60amp breaker box and remove the old fuse box and wires. He had a small box and we are doing it for a good price for my neighbor. It will be up to code and pass inspection when we are done. He convinced the home owner that it was far from right and totally unsafe (thank god because i didnt want to work on it) so its a done deal. Thanks for the advice.

thats good you did the right thing for your neighbor:grin:

 

[ceb58]

Is the compressor motor rated for damp/wet locations?

 

[TNGuy81]

yup. Its going in a little shed behind his shop thats attacked to the back so It will be ok. Im running the circuit through the wall(s) and using liquid tight from the compressor to the receptacle inside the shop (which is all of maybe 5ft). Then from the recp to the panel with romex. Which is all indoors.