Help sourcing smoke alarm

[mdshunk]

Help me out here guys.

I'm on a job at an estate property where there are three very large homes on the grounds. All three have hardwired, interconnected smoke alarms. They are the old Square D 'Earli-Gard' smoke alarms. They are a 4-wire arrangement. Two wires are the hot and neutral for the 120V power, and the other two wires are plus and minus 16 volts DC for the inter-tie. The original installer did the 120V part in romex, and the 16 volt part in thermostat wire. All three homes are done this way.

Anybody got any bright ideas on how to refit some new smoke alarms in their place? Does anyone still make 120V smokes with a 4-wire arrangement? I know what I might do, but I thought I should check to see is there's a more conventional approach.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Marc
That is an interesting situation.
I thought about it and I think your best bet might be to contact - via email the tech department of several smoke manufacturers.

Otherwise I cannot think of a solution other than use the wireless remote line voltage smokes - I think they are the BRK model.

Let us know what you do.

 

[mdshunk]

I thought about it and I think your best bet might be to contact - via email the tech department of several smoke manufacturers.

Maybe so, but this is the Mike Holt forum site after all. The answer is here, someplace.

 

[mdshunk]

I did manage to find out that Square D sold the Earli-Gard name to the guy who owns The Home Shopping Network in the late 80's. They've been using that brand name on various home safety products manufactured for them over the years. Seems these detectors I'm dealing with are from the late 70's, if I'm reading the date code right.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

The only smoke detectors that guy needs these days to to show how "smoking" he and his network are doing.


And you are correct, if anyone knows, it most likely is someone who frequents this site...other than me:grin:

 

[goldstar]

I'm not positive about this but I believe the red wire on a 3-wire, 120 volt interconnected smoke alarm system only carries a signal and not line voltage (I say this because they work when they're on battery back-up). You probably won't find a direct replacement for these older devices but you should be able to replace all the devices with new ones and rewire the system so that new smoke alarms will work properly.

I'm sure there are NEC issues with line and low voltage wiring and different wire insulation ratings in the same JB's but you have to deal with an existing situation and play the hand you're dealt to the best of your ability.

 

[mdshunk]

I'm sure there are NEC issues with line and low voltage wiring and different wire insulation ratings in the same JB's...

Yeah, briefly. You don't have so much of a choice at the actual device itself, like emergency lighting as one popular for instance.

 

[satcom]

Contact BRK tech support, they have a model, that has remote interconnect, should work with your system.

 

[JohnE]

Marc, good question. I have run across a lot of Honeywell smoke detectors (or are they alarms?) with the same type of interconnect that were installed in the late '70's. I "may" have found a solution for replacement, but can't exactly remember.

 

[JohnE]

Otherwise I cannot think of a solution other than use the wireless remote line voltage smokes - I think they are the BRK model.

.

I do not think that those detectors will satisfy the building code for interconnected smokes at least in MA.

 

[keesha]

Are these "interconnects" or on a system? Interconnects being 120VAC. System being 12/24VAC/DC.

If on a system they most likely are a 4 wire smoke (needing aux power to operate) If thats the case buy the low voltage 4 wire smokes and relocate the NM for the power. Not to code, "so I suggest" you don't do that.:wink:

 

[mdshunk]

Are these "interconnects" or on a system? Interconnects being 120VAC. System being 12/24VAC/DC.

I guess I can answer that by quoting myself:

They are a 4-wire arrangement. Two wires are the hot and neutral for the 120V power, and the other two wires are plus and minus 16 volts DC for the inter-tie. the doctor of wires

 

[keesha]

REWIRE? Bring it into code.

 

[mdshunk]

REWIRE? Bring it into code.

It is pretty easy to spend the customer's money, but surely there's other options. Fact is, it meets code the way it is today. The detectors are just old, is all. Thanks for your opinion.

 

[satcom]

We did a store and living units last year, BRK 120v and LV remote wires.

 

[mdshunk]

We did a store and living units last year, BRK 120v and LV remote wires.

BRK has come up a couple times, so I'm going to have to call them. I can't really find anything like that on their site.

 

[quogueelectric]

try to find lv smokes

try to find lv smokes

I think that most alarm companies have smokes associated with thier lv and listed systems. This may be your cheapest avenue out to be 100% legit. The wiring is allin place just to switch to all new heads and an facp

 

[mdshunk]

This may be your cheapest avenue out to be 100% legit. The wiring is allin place just to switch to all new heads and an facp

Save for the fact that the 120V feed to each detector jumps off the nearest 120v circuit.

Oh, you might be saying use 2-wire system detectors.

 

[quogueelectric]

No either adressable lv or 3 wire lv

No either adressable lv or 3 wire lv

Save for the fact that the 120V feed to each detector jumps off the nearest 120v circuit.

Oh, you might be saying use 2-wire system detectors.

The wiring is already in place just rethink the feed and all new devices you might be able to sell a completely new system without rewiring the entire house just replace heads and maybe add an facp where it is convenient it will surely be cheaper than rewiring the entire house I think.