did a job months ago, and had no problems with the gc at the time, but now they are giving us a hard time. We supported all of our 2x4 fixtures with ceiling grid wire, basically tying them to anything we could find in the ceiling. Many of the anchor points we used, were the anchors that the ceiling man shot. Now, months later, the gc wants us to go through the entire, now occupied, building, and shoot our own independant anchors, and re tie our lights up. I've looked through the 2002 code book, but havn't found anything. anybody have any thoughts?
help with 2x4 grid fixtures
- Thread starter tom hanks
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mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: help with 2x4 grid fixtures
That a 2003 IBC requirement and not an NEC requirement.
That a 2003 IBC requirement and not an NEC requirement.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: help with 2x4 grid fixtures
Yes. this is not an NEC issue, its a building code issue.
Yes. this is not an NEC issue, its a building code issue.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: help with 2x4 grid fixtures
Why did the inspector not catch this ?
Why did the inspector not catch this ?
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: help with 2x4 grid fixtures
It gets a little hariy. There's a big section that relates to seismic zones and fire rated ceilings that may require independant support of the fixtures.
If the ceiling is installed to code, you really are only required to use the integral clips on the fixture, run screws through the grid into the fixture, or run two support wires to any suitable attachment point.
If this is a fire rated ceiling or in a seismic zone, then the GC is probably justified. Asking for it now that the space is occupied is a little hard to stomach. I would feel compelled to do so if there was an inspector requiring it. If it's just something the GC thinks would be nice, then he'd have to sign a [fat] change order for me.
Additionally, the ceiling grid manufacturer's instructions and ICC engineering guides normally call for fixtures in excess of 56 pounds to be supported by independant anchors. It's been quite some time since I've come across any lay in fixtures that weighed more than 56 pounds.
[ June 07, 2005, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]
It gets a little hariy. There's a big section that relates to seismic zones and fire rated ceilings that may require independant support of the fixtures.
If the ceiling is installed to code, you really are only required to use the integral clips on the fixture, run screws through the grid into the fixture, or run two support wires to any suitable attachment point.
If this is a fire rated ceiling or in a seismic zone, then the GC is probably justified. Asking for it now that the space is occupied is a little hard to stomach. I would feel compelled to do so if there was an inspector requiring it. If it's just something the GC thinks would be nice, then he'd have to sign a [fat] change order for me.
Additionally, the ceiling grid manufacturer's instructions and ICC engineering guides normally call for fixtures in excess of 56 pounds to be supported by independant anchors. It's been quite some time since I've come across any lay in fixtures that weighed more than 56 pounds.
[ June 07, 2005, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: help with 2x4 grid fixtures
Since the project in question is on U.S. govt. property, the genreral contractor is probably also responsible to be his own quality control inspector. This has been the case on many federal projects I have been on , a certified QC man has to be on the payroll for the project. Try looking in the project specs to see if this is specifically adressed . If it is not in the spec, or if following the IBC is not listed in this spec, you probably do not need to comply. Most fed projects have an officer in charge of the project and his phone number should be listed at the start of the spec book. He may be either able to offer you relief in this, or to refer you to where it shows that your hanging method is not meeting the spec.
Since the project in question is on U.S. govt. property, the genreral contractor is probably also responsible to be his own quality control inspector. This has been the case on many federal projects I have been on , a certified QC man has to be on the payroll for the project. Try looking in the project specs to see if this is specifically adressed . If it is not in the spec, or if following the IBC is not listed in this spec, you probably do not need to comply. Most fed projects have an officer in charge of the project and his phone number should be listed at the start of the spec book. He may be either able to offer you relief in this, or to refer you to where it shows that your hanging method is not meeting the spec.
Re: help with 2x4 grid fixtures
In Massachusetts you have to provide independent support wires or chains for any suspended ceiling fixture that has a ballast. I did not think very much of this rule until a fixture in a partly dismantled ceiling came down a few inches behind my head. No eathquake or even a truck driving by triggered it.
In MA code, the support wires or chains do not have to be tight but good enough that the fire department can pull down the ceiling to look for hidden fires. MA code actually conflicts to some extent with NEC because in this application clipping the fixtures to the grid would actually be prohibited.
On my jobs I just simply run independent support wires or chains rather that clip the fixture to the grid. The independent wires are just simply better than clipping the fixture. If the grid somehow breaks clipping the fixures to the grid does absolutely nothing to keep the fixture from falling.
I have also encountered some instances where the drywall or plaster lath was put up with plasterboard nails and the light fixtures are holding up the ceiling! No wonder drywall screws were invented.
[ June 09, 2005, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: mc5w ]
In Massachusetts you have to provide independent support wires or chains for any suspended ceiling fixture that has a ballast. I did not think very much of this rule until a fixture in a partly dismantled ceiling came down a few inches behind my head. No eathquake or even a truck driving by triggered it.
In MA code, the support wires or chains do not have to be tight but good enough that the fire department can pull down the ceiling to look for hidden fires. MA code actually conflicts to some extent with NEC because in this application clipping the fixtures to the grid would actually be prohibited.
On my jobs I just simply run independent support wires or chains rather that clip the fixture to the grid. The independent wires are just simply better than clipping the fixture. If the grid somehow breaks clipping the fixures to the grid does absolutely nothing to keep the fixture from falling.
I have also encountered some instances where the drywall or plaster lath was put up with plasterboard nails and the light fixtures are holding up the ceiling! No wonder drywall screws were invented.
[ June 09, 2005, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: mc5w ]
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