Help with commercial pricing

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PaTerminator

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Lehigh Valley PA
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Electrical Contractor
Hi everybody,
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I've been searching the archives for info on how to price a commercial job. ( I usually do residential) I've gotten a lot of helpfull info from this site, but I'm still a bit green to commercial pricing.
I'm looking at an addition with:
(39) 2*2 fluor drop in fixtures
(7) single pole switches
(6) 3-way switches
(33) recpts
(14) 20 amp home runs for the above lites and recpts

The building is new construction, 10' drop ceilings, all home runs are 50' or less.
I would be supplying all materials including bulbs.
Speaking of... does anyone know of a manufacturer or supplier that sells 2*2's with prewired whips?
My usual hourly rate for commercial is $100 per hour
There is many more details to deal with on this job, (service upgrade,exterior lights,etc...) but those items I think I have it figured out.
Any help would be appreciated,
Dave
 
I'm no expert on commecial bidding. For smaller projects (such as this one) I use National Estimator supplemented with some Means numbers and do the take offs the old fashioned way with a pen and paper. For larger jobs I found an estimator that does side work.

If you don't do much commercial there are many potential pitfalls that you need to look out for. First and foremost is make sure you read the plans carefully. If you bid this job for MC or AC and it uturns out the specs require everything to be hard piped using steel compression fittings, you will be toast. Who's resposibilty is fire alarm? Are your 10' ceilings the finished height or the structural height? Are there any restrictions on working hours? Who's responsible for roof penetrations? Are there any fire sealing requirements? Do the spec's have any minimum conduit/ wire size? What are the requirements for VDV?

There are obviously many more questions that may or may not apply to your particular situation but I just wanted to start you down the road looking beyond the devices to issues that may be lurking.

Offhand I can't think of any prewired 2x2's, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Good luck.
 
$ 12,564.13 for the above job, 2007 TNE. how about you celtic i won the last one !
my own price on the 2-2's
 
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thanks for some input,

There were no electrical plans to go by, I got a building blueprint and designed a layout for the electric, according to his description. I did inform the GC about E-lighting, fire alarms and exit signs. He wanted to just start with the basic electric for now.
I know that if I give him a contract, it will be VERY specific on what is included and not included! I don't think that the GC has a lot of experience in commercial either, so I'm also going to be very specific on the draw schedule as well.
pgordon, is that figure based on $100 per hour, and can that be broken down in any more detail?
 
What is your job Square foot?
Average square foot cost for commercial office builing in california runs about $10.00 to $12.00. But square foot cost is just a ball park price.
Add Material & Labor cost = x 1.35 see what happens.
I do a lot of commercial office building TI jobs.They vary from $10.00 to $25.
per sq/F.That includes fixtures,conduit & wiring,Data/Voice conduit stubs into T-bar ceiling & Life & Saftey Back boxes and conduits.
 
pgordon said:
how about you celtic ?
Click to expand...
I didn't play this time...maybe later on I'll run the numbers :)


pgordon said:
i won the last one !
Click to expand...


How do you figure?


I saw only that you were the low bidder....I may very well have been the lowest QUAILIFED bidder :grin:
 
The size of the addition is 900 sq. ft.

Celtic, if you do get a chance to price this, could you show me the breakdown? I know you're in New Jer$ey, so your labor costs are probably higher, but materials should be pretty close.
 
PaTerminator said:
thanks for some input,

There were no electrical plans to go by, I got a building blueprint and designed a layout for the electric, according to his description. I did inform the GC about E-lighting, fire alarms and exit signs. He wanted to just start with the basic electric for now.
I know that if I give him a contract, it will be VERY specific on what is included and not included! I don't think that the GC has a lot of experience in commercial either, so I'm also going to be very specific on the draw schedule as well.
pgordon, is that figure based on $100 per hour, and can that be broken down in any more detail?
Click to expand...

They way i read this the GC is asking for you to do the electrical design, are you also a PE, even if your state does not require a sealed plan, I would still want my time and effort to design and layout the project,
"He wanted to just start with the basic electric for now."
sounds like the GC is looking to skin as much as he can, poor planed job or owner with limited funds, either way watch out. It amazes me how these guys can work their magic on hungry, green contractors, looking for work.

Whatever you do, get a decent down payment, and make sure he stays on the payment sched.
 
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I'm definitely going to hold on to the plans I drew up. I'll just give him a detailed contract that refers to the plans.
I'm green at this type of work, but i'm not that hungry for this project.
This would be a nice job if I got it, but I'm not going to do it cheap!
What are typ. draw schedules on commercial? 20% deposit,20% at start, 40% at comp. of rough, 20% after trim?
 
PaTerminator said:
I'm definitely going to hold on to the plans I drew up. I'll just give him a detailed contract that refers to the plans.
I'm green at this type of work, but i'm not that hungry for this project.
This would be a nice job if I got it, but I'm not going to do it cheap!
What are typ. draw schedules on commercial? 20% deposit,20% at start, 40% at comp. of rough, 20% after trim?
Click to expand...

When I was green I fell for a lot of the GC tricks, and it I paid for years to make up my dumb moves.

deposit and payment sched, will depend on your both your credit, and your customers credit, did you do a D&B and bank report on the contreactors ability to pay and his payment history?, I din't take up long to understand we had to run a credit check on the GC's and Owners, or pay the penalty, for not checking,
 
I figure the COST of the job first. ( bottom line ) Then add over head, material mark up and profit. The labor rate is also based on the EC cost.
(what you pay your guys + bennies+401k, med ,Dis, vacation ect...)
about $35 total per hour here in boston. The only time i use a hourly rate is
on a T&M job. $80 Regadless of res or commercial.I have had good luck with this formular, win some lose some.
 
PaTerminator said:
Pgorden,
What estimating book is the"2007 TNE"?
Click to expand...

TNE = The National Estimator (for us, it would be The National Electical Estimator....they have a TNE for everything - painting, plumbing, insuranace, etc)
 
Thanks Celtic,
I was googling estimating books and trying to find a title that began with "T". I didn't think of the word "the".:rolleyes:
Did you get a chance to run the numbers on your spreadsheet? I'm curious to see what different programs come up with.
 
I guess I'd come in at about $10,100 without seeing the job and using all MC. You can get prewhipped (and prelamped) lay-in's from just about anyone. Just depends on how you order them, and how much of a lead time you can tolerate.
 
PaTerminator said:
Did you get a chance to run the numbers on your spreadsheet? I'm curious to see what different programs come up with.
Click to expand...


No I did not...I seem to have an issue invovling sheetrock, plaster and a tenant :mad: that is consuming some time.
 
PaTerminator said:
Hi everybody,
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I've been searching the archives for info on how to price a commercial job. ( I usually do residential) I've gotten a lot of helpfull info from this site, but I'm still a bit green to commercial pricing.
I'm looking at an addition with:
(39) 2*2 fluor drop in fixtures
(7) single pole switches
(6) 3-way switches
(33) recpts
(14) 20 amp home runs for the above lites and recpts

The building is new construction, 10' drop ceilings, all home runs are 50' or less.
I would be supplying all materials including bulbs.
Speaking of... does anyone know of a manufacturer or supplier that sells 2*2's with prewired whips?
My usual hourly rate for commercial is $100 per hour
There is many more details to deal with on this job, (service upgrade,exterior lights,etc...) but those items I think I have it figured out.
Any help would be appreciated,
Dave
Click to expand...
I get quotes from my suppliers. Don't help the competition.
 
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