I'm new to estimating jobs, does this price look high? low or just about right? Its rewiring a whole house.. heres what ill be installing - 200 amp service, 21 wall/ceiling lights, 33 recessed lights, 65 devices (switch, rec), 6 smoke/c02, 6 dedicated appliance circuits, and then some demo and re-feeding of current circuits. My price came out to about 14k, which seems high to me but once i break it down it seems right, idk. i know some guys do the sq ft thing.. never tried it but this house is just under 2000 sq ft, and has a lot of recessed which would technically be extras anyway... what do you guys think? btw I'm in NJ where everything is more expensive..
help with pricing..
- Thread starter tataco84
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Ride the Lightning
Member
- Location
- danbury, ct.
I always second guess myself when submitting a price. It's natural. If you've accounted for everything (new material, travel, labor, demo, etc. etc.), are confident of your prices and could justify all your bid work then there is no reason not to submit your price. You definitely do not want to under bid the job or to do the work for cost.
Personally, I finally broke down earlier in 2015 and purchased an estimating software program. I bought an entry level program that pretty much gives me the basics. I absolutely love it. It makes me feel way more secure in estimating time and labor plus the customization you can perform within the program is just perfect. It takes a little time to set up all your jobs as you bid them, but it's time well spent. I wish I bought something 10 years ago.
Personally, I finally broke down earlier in 2015 and purchased an estimating software program. I bought an entry level program that pretty much gives me the basics. I absolutely love it. It makes me feel way more secure in estimating time and labor plus the customization you can perform within the program is just perfect. It takes a little time to set up all your jobs as you bid them, but it's time well spent. I wish I bought something 10 years ago.
which did you buy? and does it account for the location in the country you are to reflect pricing?
Ride the Lightning
Member
- Location
- danbury, ct.
I bought McCormick Systems. You can get an idea of parts pricing through their data base, but you're still better off having your own material list priced out at a supply house. You also set your own labor rate(s) within the software.
Depending how you build the job within the program, using assemblies or individual items, the program will still give you a list of all material needed including national prices stored in their data base. Just review and print that list and send over to the supply house.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
In a way every one I am familiar with accounts for the location with personal input. Don't think you can just grab a program out of the box and use the results. They all require modification and input from the user to generate the best results. If you want to save time, you will want to ensure that you have some sort of automatic pricing updates as well. Even then, you always price out big wire, and certain other commodities.
The job. Is everything closed? Plaster or drywall ? 8 foot or higher ceilings.
Is there parking or you going to be playing games that way ?
Many variables is what I'm saying.
I did a rewire a couple years back. Plaster wood lathe. I got the job because I included the patching and repairing. I can't complain because it was work and helped me out but it was grossly underbid.
My two cents on this. Bid it for what you feel you could do it for
There will always be someone who will do it for less than you or more than you. ( also realize for the most part things take longer to do than you think. I knew someone who said to me years ago "what ever you think it's going to take double it. I always thought how would you get work this way but I've found over the years I think about what he said often as things are taking longer than I thought. I was once talking to an estimator from NYC about this , as I was about to say "double it " she cut me off in mid steam and said "triple it".
It's not fun working when you know your breaking even or losing money. Or spending money to finish.
Try to stay away from people who shop numbers.
Is there parking or you going to be playing games that way ?
Many variables is what I'm saying.
I did a rewire a couple years back. Plaster wood lathe. I got the job because I included the patching and repairing. I can't complain because it was work and helped me out but it was grossly underbid.
My two cents on this. Bid it for what you feel you could do it for
There will always be someone who will do it for less than you or more than you. ( also realize for the most part things take longer to do than you think. I knew someone who said to me years ago "what ever you think it's going to take double it. I always thought how would you get work this way but I've found over the years I think about what he said often as things are taking longer than I thought. I was once talking to an estimator from NYC about this , as I was about to say "double it " she cut me off in mid steam and said "triple it".
It's not fun working when you know your breaking even or losing money. Or spending money to finish.
Try to stay away from people who shop numbers.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Materials portion is relatively easy, you know most of what you need, throw in whatever percent of extras for "just in case" that you are comfortable with, as there will be things you didn't include or things that come up that change your original plan some.
Labor is the part that is more difficult to estimate. Experience does make labor estimating easier as the more experience you have the more likely you will look at the project and realize what similar situations you encountered before and what difficulty level they presented you.
Labor is the part that is more difficult to estimate. Experience does make labor estimating easier as the more experience you have the more likely you will look at the project and realize what similar situations you encountered before and what difficulty level they presented you.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Until you said NYC I thought maybe you knew my mentor. I still use the double it rule to this day when I ask my men in the field for a guesstimate. Over the years I have automatically adjusted my thinking to where it is more likely to guess the actual time. The thing is that the brain naturally thinks about a person standing there with a tool in hand and all the material magically transported to the location and GO! They forget, the cup of coffee, the trip to the can, the delay at the supply house. That extra screw you need at the box store. clean up. etc.
It's 90% fully gutted down to the studs... And when I gave the customer the price he goes " we've got to work something out, could I help you do the work? I've done electrical work before.. What's the difference of me putting in a screw or helping you?" I said "an electrical license" lol.. It's turning into a headache so I'll prob drop the price about 10% and after that tell him to get other estimates, or use someone else..
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I would ask him to help with things like framing modification where needed, maybe let him drill some holes, let him help with heavy lifting or cable pulling - though this project doesn't sound like it has much of that, and inform him he is responsible for clean up, but otherwise most other work he is not doing if I am the one who has the liability for the installation.
Ride the Lightning
Member
- Location
- danbury, ct.
Sounds like it's coming down to how badly u need the work. If you don't need the job stick to your guns and reassure him all you priced will be honored to your fullest capabilities should you be granted the job. If you need the job he sounds like every other home owner looking to wheel and deal for anything at a lesser cost. Either way it's always best to let them think or to make it known they got something for nothing.
Yea, I'd like to get the job, but do I need it? No I don't, I've got other stuff keeping me plenty busy. So I'll prob take 10% off and call it a day.. Either he goes for it or he doesn't..
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
The best thing you can do is follow up. Don't hesitate to ask exactly where you were after the job has been awarded.
GerryB
Senior Member
- Location
- woodbridge, ct. USA
I came out about 12K without the some demo and re feeding you mentioned. I include basic can and bulb, but there are a lot of ways to go there. Be wary of any specialty fixtures like chandaliers or low voltage track lighting with cables to string, etc. Speaking of low voltage what about doorbell, cable, etc. I'd say you are right there though.
It's hard to let the HO or somebody do some of the work unless you think they actually might do it right. Like if you let them drill holes and they don't do the corners or something right what time did you save if you have to get out your drill?
What about timing with your other work, and also, it is winter, even in Jersey right?
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
I think it is best to just give them a price and let them either accept it or not.
Letting someone else do some of the work is just asking for trouble.
Letting someone else do some of the work is just asking for trouble.
kenman215
Senior Member
- Location
- albany, ny
Have you fully roughed in a home of this size before? If so, take the number of hours it took for the rough and service and add 20% to account for the fact that it is only 90% demo'ed. Multiply that by what you want to bill for hours, add your material cost and if 14k is what you get, 14k is the price. Don't let the homeowner help you with anything other then carrying materials. You'll spend more time watching them then working yourself.
thanks guys.. yeah i would never do the job if they were helping me.. i don't have time to watch every little thing he does to make sure he doesn't mess something small up, which could bite me in the a$$ once the rock is up.. and no i haven't done anything this size before, so don't really have anything to go off of.. cable, doorbell etc i didn't even put in the estimate.. i haven't done much low voltage so if that gets brought up that will be extra, as i didn't put it in the estimate, and he can see that.. i lowered the price 10%, ill see if he accepts, but I'm not lowering the price anymore. so ill either get the job or i won't. no biggie.
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