here we go again

[southernboys]

hey guys just got my wish. My boss handed me a job to run bad thing abot it is another electrician started the job. pulled all of the wires. Ive already noticed several problems on this job. starting with the dishwasher and dryer on the sa ckt. normally I pull a seperate homerun for these two. hit the switch for disposal and feed dw hot. can I tap off a switch for lights to feed these apliances. the bedroom switches were tied in with hallway switches prints are marked Job is to be wired to 99 code does this give me a loophole to the ark fault code? where would you guys begin this job at as Im pressed for time but have to catch any and all possible code violations. inspector has passed rough suposedly before I arived on job are these items listed above likely to be caught on rough or trim. I know what my boss is going to tell me not worry about these items but if I have enough of you guys backing my pov it would help my cause thanks. one other code queston is can I have more than 2 sa ckts ie a seperate one fot the dining room thanks

 

[bigjohn67]

Re: here we go again

It may be against code, but do as your boss says as he is the one who signs your check.

Code only requires 2- 1500watt circuits for small appliance loads.

 

[william runkle]

Re: here we go again

Was this job started by your company or some other company? If you are going by the 99 Code arc-fault were to start in 2002 which is gone and past so then you just have to worry about the receptacles not outlets. As for the rest you will have to answer the top question if it is the company you work for then do what your boss wants as the previous post stated he signs your check none of us with all the wisdom we have can supercede your boss. How much longer do you have to be an Electrical Contractor? Then you can do it your way but till then do as the boss says and question him why he might have a good reason for it that you may even then see his point of view.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: here we go again

Originally posted by southernboys:
hey guys just got my wish. My boss handed me a job to run bad thing abot it is another electrician started the job pulled all of the wires.

Why is there always a catch?

...the bedroom switches were tied in with hallway switches...

This is perfectly legal.

210.12 doesn't state that bedrooms have to be dedicated, it just says they have to be protected by an AFCI. You can pull however you want, as long as every outlet (light, smoke, receptacle) is protected by AFCI.

...prints are marked Job is to be wired to 99 code...

You need to wire to the code the AHJ is enforcing, not by when the plans were stamped.

where would you guys begin this job at as Im pressed for time but have to catch any and all possible code violations. inspector has passed rough suposedly before I arived on job are these items listed above likely to be caught on rough or trim. I know what my boss is going to tell me not worry about these items but if I have enough of you guys backing my pov it would help my cause thanks.

B, did your boss send you to the house after rough inspection? Then it seems like he wants it fixed, why would you think otherwise.

Don't even consider playing "psychoanalyst" with the AHJ, it's a waste of time. Expect him to catch every violation at trim, and if your boss wonders what took so long, take notes. Remember, it's way faster to fix this stuff before drywall than after. A rough inspection is a convenience, not a guarantee that everything the inspector didn't notice on rough is going to be forgiven on trim.

one other code queston is can I have more than 2 sa ckts ie a seperate one fot the dining room thanks

You betcha.

See 210.11, and look at 210.52(B).

They often refer to the "two or more SABC's."

I usually put my fridge on with the dining room outlets, which is my third standard SABC.

Good luck. I'm getting tired of fixing other people's screw-ups too. Be tough, fix it, and be ready to explain the time. You didn't screw it up.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: here we go again

This is perfectly legal.

210.12 doesn't state that bedrooms have to be dedicated, it just says they have to be protected by an AFCI. You can pull however you want, as long as every outlet (light, smoke, receptacle) is protected by AFCI.

George that is a 2002 article in 99 the wording was different,99 code said receptacle outlets,not outlets as it was worded in 02 cycle.So by rights an inspector could but I doubt it that he/she could fail the final for having more than the receptacle outlets on that afci circuit.
There are some inspectors that would and others that would say it`s ok since now the lights smokes etc. have to be afci protected
southernboys just finish the job as it was roughed.If the BOSS says do it be selective in your response and kindly tell him .OK but it`s your EC license on the line

 

[southernboys]

Re: here we go again

allen and george I apreciate you guys responses. had a chance to walk through with pm today. pointed out the problems I saw per code he just said to leave em how they are. So thats what im going to do if inspector catches it on trim then the companys screwed. these are 4 story units with no acess points between floors, I will take and write down each violation I saw and pointed out to pm and when we get turned down on trim Ill show him my notes then probaly bail since it wont be on me. george I meant to say dishwasher and disposal. never saw a dryer run on 120v my bad

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: here we go again

DW and Disp can possibly share a circuit. AFCI not required on 99 code. You can have as many sa circuits as you need or want. As far as being a hack just because the boss signs your check does not make a difference to me. If you know what you are doing is wrong you are no better than the person who told you to do it, I'd go so far as to say you are worse. Not directed at you personally just a general statement to those who might be inclined to say "The boss signs your check do what he wants". In Mass that does not give you a free pass. The laws in general say that the contractor shall not be responsible for work done by an employee. It's your rear to fry.

 

[roger]

Re: here we go again

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
AFCI not required on 99 code.

Scott, "Receptacle Outlets" are required to be AFCI protected on permits pulled after Jan 1 2002 under the 99 NEC.

Roger

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: here we go again

I suppose I should have actually looked at the book. Oops.

[ June 23, 2005, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

 

[redfish]

Re: here we go again

I used to be in a hurry to critisize the other guys work when he didn't finish the job. More than once I found out the reason he didn't finish,was do to the general contractor or property managers not paying their bills. It sounds like this PM likes to cut corners too.

 

[southernboys]

Re: here we go again

red wouldnt criticize if this joker who used to work for my company knew what he was doing. The violations are obvious. would you not center a fan in a room? Or what height would you put your vanity kight whip at? This guy drew a paycheck every week and was slower then molases running uphill in the north in winter!

 

[redfish]

Re: here we go again

Good old Red, I feel like I know him already. A box off center isn't a code violation, a vanity light with a whip instead of an outlet box might be.

[ June 23, 2005, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: redfish ]

 

[allenwayne]

Re: here we go again

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good old Red, I feel like I know him already. A box off center isn't a code violation, a vanity light with a whip instead of an outlet box might be.
Depends on the fixture though,some vanity strips defenitly show a box mounted behind the fixture in manufacturers instructions.Easy to identify back of fixture has a 1/2 in opning in the center and a whole bunch of open slots for screws

 

[redfish]

Re: here we go again

Got me, I guess it's all in the wording and not in the wiring.

 

[Bighand]

Re: here we go again

It may be against code, but do as your boss says as he is the one who signs your check.

I totally disagree with this statement. Is bigjohn67 your boss by chance? I would never compromise my principles or reputation for anyone. The code is there for a reason and the reason is to save the surroundings and lives. I truly feel that no mater how bizarre the code is there is a story of near miss or destruction involved. Not only is the consumer protected with the code but so am I. If I had to I would help the inspector do his job. Maybe leave post-it notes all over that say look here. I have had bosses that would get POed at me but in the long run the respected me and would not put me in those situations unless they wanted it done right.

May the EMF be with you - Bighand