Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

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peter d

peter d

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Location
New England
I didn't have my a camera with me today, so a description will have to suffice. I was checking out a new home going up down the street from me and was inspecting the wiring. I went down into the basement and nearly fell over when I opened the transfer switch.

The electrician connected the incoming service to the "load" terminals, and the outgoing conductors to the main panel to one of the "line" terminals. Totally backwards obviously. The dangerous part is that when the transfer switch is on the "generator" position, the generator will directly backfeed into the utility.

I suspect this problem won't be noticed until the first power outage when the generator doesn't light anything up. :(

I don't understand how a professional (the home is being wired by a licensed electrician) could make this mistake. :confused:
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Did you disconnect the transfer switch? I would have. I was in a similar situation and disconnected
power. I got into a bunch of trouble, but didn't get fired. After a butt chewing, I went back and made it right at the owners expense.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Manual or ATS??? An ATS won't ever transfer, but an MTS will really do a number on that genset when the switch is thrown. Make sure you're at a safe distance when the show starts.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Originally posted by paul:
Manual or ATS??? An ATS won't ever transfer, but an MTS will really do a number on that genset when the switch is thrown. Make sure you're at a safe distance when the show starts.
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Especially if someone decides to excercise the system while the utility is still energized!
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

This is a 200 amp GE manual transfer switch. The generator isn't hooked up yet since the home is still in the very early stages of construction.

The darn thing is clearly lableled "Line" "Load" "Line" !!!!

I don't know what to do other than an anonymous tip to the electrical inspector. They would not likely notice this as they don't typically open up panels and enclosures. If I tell the builder, then I will have admitted that I was "inspecting"
one of his homes on the weekend when he was not there. Not a great option. He's a nice guy and always lets me check out his new homes, but I don't want to wear out my welcome. :( But on the other hand, someones life could be at stake. :eek: :eek:

[ October 17, 2005, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: peter d ]
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Peter, you have to tell the builder. Otherwise, your credibility as an electrician goes down the drain. There is no way this job is worth more than your reputation.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

I'm going to contact the electrical inspector ASAP. After all, he has real authority in the situation.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Originally posted by sparky_magoo:
There is no way this job is worth more than your reputation.
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I don't work for the builder or the electrician wiring the house, so there is nothing on the line for me other than having this on my conscience, which believe me is enough. I was simply checking out the place when I noticed it.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

It's great that you noticed a hazardous condition and admirable that you will report it. The question that bothers me is , did you have permission to inspect the electrical installation and open the transfer switch. If the answer is yes , why no just tell the contractor that one of his guys made a mistake. I noticed a contractor making some changes one day ( he does not normally wear tools ) so I ask what he was up to since his part of the job was over and his inspection passed. He had noticed a mistake made by an employee and was correcting it. Perhaps the contractor has not even inspected the work. You said that the generator is not even there. There are often mistakes make during construction but if they are spotted and corrected they are not a problem. My position is this " I had better not catch any stray electricians opening any equipment on any of my jobs without permission ". I don't trespass on other sites and I don't forgive a trespass on mine. Good Luck on getting the boot removed if you are caught by the wrong person.

[ October 17, 2005, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: growler ]
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Go see the builder..act as if you were never at the place...ask if you can look it over...express amazement at the transfer switch ("Hey, I have been thinking of doing this at my place!")...open the switch, look it over...and then say "Hey, I am not sure, but you might want to verify that these connections are correct."
Let the builder take it from there.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

1-did you have permission to be there ?
2-was the house wired by your company ?
3-Why did you go and check if the answer to the first 2 questions are no(to go any further you`ll have to answer the 3 questions) :D
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Originally posted by thinfool:. . . act as if you were never at the place . . . express amazement at the transfer switch
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I don't agree with that suggestion. The two best things about avoiding the deception game, about always telling the truth, are (1) That you can't be caught in the lie, and (2) That you don't have to remember who you told what to.

But there is not always a need (unless you are testifying in court) to tell the whole truth. A simple statement that "this is wired wrong" need not be followed by "and this is how I know."
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

The best course of action if the job was someone elses is to look away and pay no attention to it.Now if it was your companies well that is different, but if anothers then all you are doing is opening a subject that will come back on you in one way shape or form.
Ask me no questions I`ll tell you no lies ;)
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

You guys really make things so difficult. Seriously this is not some great caper that needs to be cracked. Typical responses here. Trying to make it look like Peter is the cause of the problem as if he screwed up the installation. Yes I am talking to you Growler, and Allen. These people, the builder, future homeowner and most importantly Electrical contractor should bow down and kiss Peters *** for savaing them from what could end up being a disaster.
If I was friendly with the builder I'd let him know what I saw. If I didn't know him I would call the AHJ and tell him. You can't look the other way as Allen suggested.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
These people, the builder, future homeowner and most importantly Electrical contractor should bow down and kiss Peters *** for savaing them from what could end up being a disaster.
If I was friendly with the builder I'd let him know what I saw. If I didn't know him I would call the AHJ and tell him. You can't look the other way as Allen suggested.
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I agree!And also with Charlie!
Having been general contractor, electrical contractor, and industrial electrician I know the rules of the game change from place to place. But one thing doesn't, that's personal integrity. If the rules in your area say this would be considered a trespass, start with the apology for having done so, than mention what you saw! Someone's safety could be at sake and silence would be cowardly. I would probably go only to the electrical contractor unless he rebuffs you. Most all I know would be grateful for the heads up. :)
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Thank you Scott.

Here's the bottom line, and I hope this will come to an end.

The only call I will make is to the town inspector. The AHJ is the last line of defense. If the electrician screws up, he is the only hope left as well as being the only one with authority over the electrician. He can fail the job and then hopefully remind the EC that he just made a serious error.

Telling the builder is absolutely no guarantee that anything will happen. He may even forget about it 10 minutes later.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Scott, I can't believe that you think that a job site should be an open house with every Tom, Dick and Peter allowed to come and go at will and to conduct inspections( to include the opening of panels and transfer switches ) as they see fit.No inspection was requested, neither the electrical contractor nor the builder were present. Most sites are posted that only authorized personnel are to enter. Is Peter insured while conducting this unauthorized inspection. Since he is not authorized to be there he is just like anyone else off the street ( a trespasser ). I don't question the fact that he found a hazardous condition only what he was doing there in the first place. I wouldn't want to show up on a job and find a stranger opening up equipment that I had installed. Scott, do you give everyone the right to open up a panel and inspect it when you are doing a job. Some bum walks down the street and just happens to find a screw driver, walks on in and pops the cover. If Peter wants to inspect houses, then let him get permission from the builder or electrical contractor.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

First time poster,long time reader.As an electrician for "quite a long time",I would HOPE!! someone would tell me if I did something wrong.Especially if the potential of someone getting hurt was involved.Go with your morals/ethics.If have read this board for about 6 months now and you seem to embody the the right ethics.Great Site!!
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

I have no problem with anybody checking out my work at any time. Most homes under construction are wide open and I am sure that there are electricians in the neighborhood that check out the work on weekends when nobody is around. I do it myself. If I screwed something up I would be embarrassed as hell that one of my peers found the problem but at the same time I would be grateful.
 
Re: Hideously dangerous transfer switch- electrician's faul

Oops

[ October 17, 2005, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
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