High leg landing

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Hv&Lv

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Ran into another installation yesterday where the high leg was landed on Center position on the panel AND center position on the meter base. Had to call another electrician and explain why this is wrong, again...

I’ve seen them where they were landed on C position on Meter base and C position on panel, and I made it a point to call the electrician to explain why this is wrong, only to have him tell me the inspector passed it, and to hook it up. Then gets mad when I refuse because I don’t want to blow HIS equipment up...

I had an instructor in a CE class say some utilities want them on the right side, some wants them on the left side, and the utilities need to make their mind up.

I can’t get some to understand the high leg on C phase(right side) of the meter base is a metering issue and must be done that way to meter correctly.

Code says where to land it in the panel, but I still see it marked orange, in the C phase position, and passed inspection.

I don’t mind moving it to the correct position, but then I’m liable should something go wrong down the line because I changed the wiring...

Question... connect it if it passed inspection, or continue to call? Naturally if it isn’t in the correct place on the meterbase it has to be changed before we connect, because it won’t meter correctly.
 
How can you change it to the B phase, what will happen to the 120 volt circuits already on that phase?
 
Sorry, I’m not understanding your question...
Usually I have to tell them to take their orange wire and put in on B position on the panel.
when I find them on B position in the meterbase it has to be moved to C position.

C phase position on meterbase, B position on panel is correct.
 
Hv&Lv said:
Ran into another installation yesterday where the high leg was landed on Center position on the panel AND center position on the meter base. Had to call another electrician and explain why this is wrong, again...

I’ve seen them where they were landed on C position on Meter base and C position on panel, and I made it a point to call the electrician to explain why this is wrong, only to have him tell me the inspector passed it, and to hook it up. Then gets mad when I refuse because I don’t want to blow HIS equipment up...

I had an instructor in a CE class say some utilities want them on the right side, some wants them on the left side, and the utilities need to make their mind up.

I can’t get some to understand the high leg on C phase(right side) of the meter base is a metering issue and must be done that way to meter correctly.

Code says where to land it in the panel, but I still see it marked orange, in the C phase position, and passed inspection.

I don’t mind moving it to the correct position, but then I’m liable should something go wrong down the line because I changed the wiring...

Question... connect it if it passed inspection, or continue to call? Naturally if it isn’t in the correct place on the meterbase it has to be changed before we connect, because it won’t meter correctly.
Click to expand...

You as the POCO absolutely should refuse to connect if the customer/electrician does not have the high leg on the C phase in the meter socket and marked as such. Nor should the POCO try to be nice and change it for the customer as that could lead to high leg to neutral issues and let out the magic smoke.
I've seen some POCOs so picky about this that they will not make it hot unless the EC is present and agrees on high leg location and rotation.
 
I wouldn’t if it weren’t in the right place in the meterbase

But should I have to go behind and electrical inspector, and the electrician, and check the panel?

As a licensed EC it’s just what I feel is right seeing as how I find so many wrong.

Anyone here had anything burnt because it wasn’t landed correctly in the panel?
 
I never knew it mattered which position it goes in the meter. (And I don't install services, so I haven't made any mistake one way or the other.) Why does it matter?

It seems to me that as a utility guy it is your business to have the meter wired correctly, and it is not your business to demand changes to the main panel if the AHJ has passed it.
 
jaggedben said:
I never knew it mattered which position it goes in the meter. (And I don't install services, so I haven't made any mistake one way or the other.) Why does it matter?

It seems to me that as a utility guy it is your business to have the meter wired correctly, and it is not your business to demand changes to the main panel if the AHJ has passed it.
Click to expand...

It is the customers responsibility to connect the intended high leg to the load side of the meter C phase to meet the POCO requirements for proper metering. It is also the customers responsibility to connect the high leg to the B phase (unless this is a legacy installation where the premises is wired with all high legs on C phase) at the service disconnect to meet NEC and ensure that his line to neutral loads are only connected to phases A and C on his end.
There may be exceptions, but in all my years I have never seen a POCO that did not require the high leg to be on the C phase in the meter socket. I don't know enough about metering to explain why but maybe someone here knows the technical details as to why.
 
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jaggedben said:
It seems to me that as a utility guy it is your business to have the meter wired correctly, and it is not your business to demand changes to the main panel if the AHJ has passed it.
Click to expand...

I don’t DEMAND it... I try to call and tell them it’s wrong.

408.3(e) demands it. Inspector missed it. I was just trying to let them know. No need to blow lights and appliances away just to prove a point...

The guy I was referring to in the first post, I refused to connect it until he was there. He came there, I told the guys to connect it. He checked voltage, found out he was wrong. I wasn’t an ass to him, I just tried to explain why it was like that and directed him to the right code section.
 
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Hv&Lv said:
I don’t DEMAND it... I try to call and tell them it’s wrong.

408.3(e) demands it. Inspector missed it. I was just trying to let them know. No need to blow lights and appliances away just to prove a point...
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

Roger
 
Hv&Lv said:
Sorry, I’m not understanding your question...
Click to expand...

He’s saying if you move it from C to B in the panel, any 120v circuits on B phase will now be 208v to ground. You’d have to ask the EC to move those circuits to C before energizing.


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brantmacga said:
He’s saying if you move it from C to B in the panel, any 120v circuits on B phase will now be 208v to ground. You’d have to ask the EC to move those circuits to C before energizing.


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Click to expand...

again. 408.3(e)
they shouldn’t be there in the first place.
120V loads go on A&C.
B is reserved for three phase applications.
 
Hv&Lv said:
again. 408.3(e)
they shouldn’t be there in the first place.
120V loads go on A&C.
B is reserved for three phase applications.
Click to expand...

I understand that, I’m explaining why you can’t move it without informing the EC because damage would occur. Best practice is to refuse the hookup and inform the EC they need to make the change.


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And I did, and do... see above.

I moved one at the request of the EC. I know him. Turned the main off, moved it, and connected it. He came back and fixed under the main later.

The instructor I was referring to in the first post, Dennis Alwon may know him, if he gets to Guilford. He is an inspector there...
 
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brantmacga said:
Gotcha, I was just trying to explain the question you had previously about infinity’s comment.


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Click to expand...

NOW I’m following..:slaphead: a little slow. Stuck at home bored outa my skull...

thanks!
 
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