HO or EC, Who is doing more resi work?

[iwire]

HO wiring is on the rise due to increased DIY and BB stores

I disagree, people have always worked on their own homes, the BB stores are the result of DIYs not the cause. Before they was "This Old House" and all the shows that followed there where books. Before the BB stores there where local hardware stores, lumber yards and lighting shops in most towns that catered to, or at least tolerated the DIYs.

EC's are doing less and less resi branch circuit work because HO's are doing it

I am willing to bet there are more residential electrical service companies in business now then at any time previous.

Private Home Inspections are on the rise due to a more safety concious society and more code infractions at the time of real estate sales.

I agree with the first part, disagree with the second part. I do agree that there are now more code rules to break then there was in the past.

City and County Inpections do a good job but have limitations due to various reasons.....

I think it is imposable to generalize the entire country's inspection process from our own small view of it. Each area is very different, some States do 'drive by' inspections while another will go over each job meticulously.


JMHO, Bob

 

[iwire]

BTW, I am a big supporter of the entire 'Home Inspector' process. I know the HIs make mistakes that many ECs like to whine about but the HIs also do find and cause the repair of a lot of really serious hazards.

 

[Mule]

I disagree, people have always worked on their own homes, the BB stores are the result of DIYs not the cause. Before they was "This Old House" and all the shows that followed there where books. Before the BB stores there where local hardware stores, lumber yards and lighting shops in most towns that catered to, or at least tolerated the DIYs.



I am willing to bet there are more residential electrical service companies in business now then at any time previous.



I agree with the first part, disagree with the second part. I do agree that there are now more code rules to break then there was in the past.



I think it is imposable to generalize the entire country's inspection process from our own small view of it. Each area is very different, some States do 'drive by' inspections while another will go over each job meticulously.


JMHO, Bob

Ok....But I remember the day, when the consumer could not buy electrical parts, there were no BB stores, parts houses would not hardly sell to them, and we didnt have cable and DIY, or the computor........OK.....I'm reaching too far back aren't I? haha

And your right there is huge differences in inspectors...

 

[ohm]

I think most big boxes and hardware stores actually downplay the Code and even promote illegal wiring.

Home Depot list #2 AL is good for 100A on their wall, sells flip covers where in-use are required and may have electricians selling stuff but does not require them to stay up to date on Code changes. In fact they still don't have WR resistant receptacles or Inter System ground bus on the shelves. They also don't promote TR receptacles of AFCI breakers to the unsuspecting HO's.

I go to hardware stores for a quickie item and listen to all sorts of mis-information. If a house burns down as a result, I wonder if the store owner realizes he and his clerk could be sued?

I watched a DIY show where they were installing lamp cord into a switchbox with no fear at all, on national TV.

When I go into a big box the salesmen send me customers with questions they can't answer. It sometimes takes me two hours to pick up a few items.

I called Home Depot headquarters in Atlanta and after a few weeks they started stocking AFCI's and TR receptacles. They really need to get on the ball. Lowes is no better.

 

[iwire]

Ok....But I remember the day, when the consumer could not buy electrical parts,

Obviously I am not where you are but here I remember wholesale electrical supply houses located in out of the way places that dealt with only contractors.

In addition to those wholesalers there where hardware stores and Light fixture stores that also sold basic homeowner electrical supplies. NM, staples, fuses, boxes, etc. Getting all you needed for a service change back then might have been harder but getting the stuff to remodel the basement was no problem.

and we didn't have cable and DIY, or the computer

For what it's worth I see darn little electrical advice on the TV shows, they seem to focus on carpentry and interior finishes.

 

[ohm]

Obviously I am not where you are but here I remember wholesale electrical supply houses located in out of the way places that dealt with only contractors.

In addition to those wholesalers there where hardware stores and Light fixture stores that also sold basic homeowner electrical supplies. NM, staples, fuses, boxes, etc. Getting all you needed for a service change back then might have been harder but getting the stuff to remodel the basement was no problem.




For what it's worth I see darn little electrical advice on the TV shows, they seem to focus on carpentry and interior finishes.

True, the wholesale houses don't have much patience for a HO who doesn't know what they need. The DIY shows normally steer clear of electrical advice but there are exceptions.

The BB's have also started selling "Portfolio" lighting fixtures which have UL labels but the mounting brackets force the fixture to be mounted a few inches off the octagon box. How in the world can they get listed?

 

[480sparky]

...When I go into a big box the salesmen send me customers with questions they can't answer.....

"Here's my card. My rates are $xx per hour. If you need professional help, I'm the one who can solve your problem......."

 

[ohm]

"Here's my card. My rates are $xx per hour. If you need professional help, I'm the one who can solve your problem......."

Usually after I help someone the're very appreciative and ask for a card but after month's of doing this I've only gotten one job for my efforts.

However, I've been paid very well knowing I,ve helped someone who had very little money and was dong all they could do to help themselves.:smile:

 

[Mule]

"Here's my card. My rates are $xx per hour. If you need professional help, I'm the one who can solve your problem......."

Are you sure your rates are not $xxx not $xx

 

[khixxx]

My cousin is doing a remodel on his new home about a complete gut job. I don't know much about resi code but some. He was bragging about how he did this and that to code blalblblablabla like it was no big deal blablablabla. Then he was starting to try and get technical about the code. I stopped him and asked why bother with the code I see 5 violations here in the bedroom.

Will his house burn down? most likely not. Did he save a few grand? Most likely. The kicker was that the insurance company was there to inspect the house. Heck they didn't even question the door with a 15ft drop off were the future deck is going to be built.

 

[ohm]

My cousin is doing a remodel on his new home about a complete gut job. I don't know much about resi code but some. He was bragging about how he did this and that to code blalblblablabla like it was no big deal blablablabla. Then he was starting to try and get technical about the code. I stopped him and asked why bother with the code I see 5 violations here in the bedroom.

Will his house burn down? most likely not. Did he save a few grand? Most likely. The kicker was that the insurance company was there to inspect the house. Heck they didn't even question the door with a 15ft drop off were the future deck is going to be built.

Most insurance or home inspectors don't know enough about a single discipline to spot a real problem. They may walk around with a receptacle tester, spot missing covers, test outside, bath & kitchen GFCI's etc. but their real mission in life is to allow a loan to proceed.

That's why this countrys real estate market tanked. Real estate appraisers, bankers, agents, underwriters also helped.

Even OSHA inspectors are a joke. Years ago, I had just inherited E & I in a chemical plant and was told OSHA was at the gate to inspect us! Well there were hundreds of violations but they checked our shop grinders for proper adjustments and asked me what was in those orange pieces of plastic tubing? 20 lb. air I said and they were on their way, happy as could be! :roll:

 

[Bob NH]

I built my own house in '64. I learned wiring from a Sears manual and did everything from the weatherhead to the outlets. I also had a code that could fit in my pocket.

The problem was the inspector. I had installed a multiwire branch circuit in the kitchen. The inspector insisted it was illegal because "When both circuits are drawing 20 amps there will be 40 amps on the neutral".

More recently (2007) I installed a new 200 Amp service. All the inspector could think of was "You need two ground rods." I had to open his code handbook to show him that a supplemental electrode was not required if I had an "Other local metal underground system or structure" per 250.52(A)(7); which I had in the form of 40 ft of copper pipe that was part of an underground heating distribution system.

The only other thing he wanted to see was the inside of a subpanel to make sure that the neutral was not grounded and that the ground was not connected to the neutral bar.

Too many inpsectors go to school and get a few points pounded into them and can't get past those points.

 

[electricmanscott]

Most insurance or home inspectors don't know enough about a single discipline to spot a real problem. They may walk around with a receptacle tester, spot missing covers, test outside, bath & kitchen GFCI's etc. but their real mission in life is to allow a loan to proceed.

That's why this countrys real estate market tanked. Real estate appraisers, bankers, agents, underwriters also helped.

So it was the home inspectors fault......

 

[ohm]

So it was the home inspectors fault......

I listed a bunch of contributors to the problem..home inspectors are IMO one of them. They list a few items then tell you to find an electricians. Then they say they don't look at the septic system or the crack in the structure etc. etc.

They can usually do everthing from the driveway and make a living.:smile: