Holmes on Homes- HGTV Episode

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newt

Senior Member
I just watched a 2008 episode of Holmes on Homes. This is an HGTV show in which Holmes goes to different towns to fix repairs done by shotty contractors. They had a 200 amp panel, the entrance cable came in the top, so did the branch circuits. Holmes claimed this was a code violation. He pulled the entire panel out and remounted it horizontally, keeping the entrance cable wire seperate from branch circuits. (It was a Square D- QO panel). I have always believed that the panel is to only be mounted vertically????
 

Mgraw

Senior Member
The show is made in Canada. Different code than we have here. The service wires cannot occupy the same area as branch circuits. There is a divider between service wires and the rest of the panel.
 

John Valdes

Senior Member
Location
SC.
Some electricians from Canada have told me you can mount the panels vertically or on their side. Personal preference. Just like it is here. I have never seen a panel with a divider? I am asking?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
This is really a rule that we need in the NEC. Properly designed isolation between the line side and the load side of the service OCPD would permit us to legally work in a service panel with the breaker in the off position. Under the OSHA rules, we are not permitted to work in a service panel unless we have the panel de-energized. In most cases that would require coordination with the utility and that is not normally done. I would guess that 95% or more of the work done in residential and commercial panels is done in violation of the electrical safe work rules.
 

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
This is really a rule that we need in the NEC. Properly designed isolation between the line side and the load side of the service OCPD would permit us to legally work in a service panel with the breaker in the off position. Under the OSHA rules, we are not permitted to work in a service panel unless we have the panel de-energized. In most cases that would require coordination with the utility and that is not normally done. I would guess that 95% or more of the work done in residential and commercial panels is done in violation of the electrical safe work rules.
I agree 100%. It would cost next to nothing to implement, and the rule should also allow field-fabricated barriers of specific material types to be added to older panels.

It would for once be a rule with a lot of value, unlike the AFCI caper. :grin:
 

nakulak

Senior Member
when I rebuilt my own house service, I put a fused disco on the outside (just happened to be easier); but I've often thought that it would be great for all houses to have that (so much easier for fire dept if there is a fire) (I'm not making any suggestions - just a thought !)
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
I agree 100%. It would cost next to nothing to implement, and the rule should also allow field-fabricated barriers of specific material types to be added to older panels.

It would for once be a rule with a lot of value, unlike the AFCI caper. :grin:
I made such a proposal for the 2011 code and it did not even get one panel members vote.
 

Split Bolt

Senior Member
That whole "Canadian Horizontally Mounted Panel Holmes On Homes" (CHMPHOH:D) issue has made its rounds here before. My question is how does this work when a panel is flush-mounted in a wall? Are the studs run horizontally as well?:D
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
breaker handle position

breaker handle position

If you mount the panel horizionatly isn't one row of breakers in the "on"
position when the handle is down? Doesn't this violate code section___??
 

mikeames

Senior Member
Location
Germantown MD
This is really a rule that we need in the NEC. Properly designed isolation between the line side and the load side of the service OCPD would permit us to legally work in a service panel with the breaker in the off position. Under the OSHA rules, we are not permitted to work in a service panel unless we have the panel de-energized. In most cases that would require coordination with the utility and that is not normally done. I would guess that 95% or more of the work done in residential and commercial panels is done in violation of the electrical safe work rules.
I agree but heres another question. Why does OSHA not make an exception for residential panels. Actually I would venture to say that %99.99999 of residential panels that are not new construction are worked on hot. Seems liek there needs to be some common sense.
 
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