Home automation

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iaov

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
Just got the plans to wire a new house yesterday and HO has expressed an interest in some Home Automation provided it doesn't cost more than about 2 grand. I would like to spend a thousand on hardware and the rest on labor. Can I do anything worth doing for this little money?? My background is industrial and I immediately think of PLC's and big relay cabinets. I'm certain there are things more appropriate for a residential situation but I am sorely lacking in experiance in these matters. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 
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nunu161

Senior Member
Location
NEPA
2 grand is no where near enough for a full automation system but leviton does make a nice data cabinet for residential with maybe 2 coax and 2 datas for each room for a complete networking system but as far as running your house from a remote i dont think its feasible
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Suggestions, in no particular order:

1. Be sure to wire the house as you would for conventional switches and such anyway.

2. Be sure to have a neutral in every switch box, meaning no 2-wire switch loops.

3. Form a very specific plan for what the customer wants to be automated.

4. Be well versed in LV wiring (A/V, phone, computer networking, etc.), too.

5. It's better to say you don't know how than to say you thought you knew how.

6. If you don't know what you're doing, hire an automation contractor who does.
 
iaov

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
Thanks Larry. I was afraid two grand was probably way to little. I would realy like to get my feet wet doing this stuff but maybe thats like trying to get your feet wet doing PLC's.Some stuff you realy do need a formal education for.
 
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ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
LarryFine said:
Suggestions, in no particular order:

1. Be sure to wire the house as you would for conventional switches and such anyway.

2. Be sure to have a neutral in every switch box, meaning no 2-wire switch loops.

3. Form a very specific plan for what the customer wants to be automated.

4. Be well versed in LV wiring (A/V, phone, computer networking, etc.), too.

5. It's better to say you don't know how than to say you thought you knew how.

6. If you don't know what you're doing, hire an automation contractor who does.
Click to expand...

All good comments Larry. I googled X10 and had a ton of hits. At first glance each switch or receptacle cost about $20 and you still need a computer to control things. Sounds like $2000 wouldn't come close.

However, IMHO if someone is well versed in PLC's they shouldn't have a problem w/ x10.
 
mxslick

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
Sorry to say 2 grand won't even cover the cable for a system like AMX or Crestron.

Anyone going thru the trouble of home automation needs to really step up to the plate and invest in AMX or Crestron, anything else is fraught with reliability issues.

For a whole-house system for say a $k square foot home, figure on MINIMUM of $15,000 to as much as $30,000..but the system can do anything you need it to do. :)
 
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stevenj76

Senior Member
I like alot of the stuff Pass/seymour has. In the catalogs they breakdown installations into economy, standard, premium, and such layouts of devices.

I know a guy who says the intercom in his house was the greatest thing he ever bought.

Guess you could take a couple 1 1/4" smurf tubes to the attic and a couple to the crawl and duct seal them for future use. Could never lose there.
 
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smo

Member
If the customer doesn't have an ABSOLUTE BARE MINIMUM of $10,000.00 don't even think of automation. Control 4 is what I use, and it is on the inexpensive side of things as far as automation goes, and you are still usually at $20,000.00 for a home. In my opinion, X10 is the "Handyman's" way of automation....
 
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macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
Just like what others have said, if the customer say's "we want home automation" my reply is "we want you to cough up minimum 30-35k for it."
There are a few that say ok 35 it is, so now what? I have a friend in the home automation business who can do wonders for that.
 
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aline

Senior Member
Location
Utah
For $2,000 you won't be able to do much but if you can do something simple with a few lights the homeowner may get a taste of home automation and decide they want more.
You might show the homeowner some videos on what home automation can do. Maybe the'll decide to increase their budget for this.

I carry a small lighting controll demo kit with me. When in an existing home doing work I'll bring home automation up with the customer and break out the demo kit. Many don't even know about home automation and giving them a little taste of it can lead to larger installs.

Here's a couple of videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZhvMFej2dg&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGOjl_lZdkY&feature=related
 
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
iaov said:
Just got the plans to wire a new house yesterday and HO has expressed an interest in some Home Automation provided it doesn't cost more than about 2 grand.
Click to expand...
You'll have to clearly define (between yourself and your customer0 what some means. You may be able to get away with $2K or less if some means exactly that - some lights. If you're planning on whole house automation you're not even close (as others have mentioned).

Also, some words of caution :
1) If you're going to use X-10, wire the house as you normally would, as Larry suggested, and be sure you have a neutral in the switch box;
2) From my last experience with this stuff, if you're planning on dimming any lights the dimmers aren't rated for 600 watts;
3) You're gonna have to "pay for your education" with this stuff. It's not just "plug and play". There are numerous appliances throughout the house that block X-10 signals. It could be an "instant-on" TV, cell phone charger, usually anything that has a transformer that can generate noise on an AC line. The biggest one I've found so far is a lap-top charger. Everything will be working fine one day and suddenly the daughter comes home from college and mysteriously the system doesn't work. Only, the folks don't tell you that she has a lap-top charger plugged in.:mad:

I'm only cautioning you with this info and not trying to discourage you from taking the job. I have a box in my shed with about $500 worth of X-10 stuff that I've purchased over the years that used to work at a residence and then just quit. The other thing I think you should know is that should you happen to call tech support regarding a problem, bear in mind it will never be their fault. You either did something wrong or there is something in the house blocking the X-10 signal.

Have fun and good luck.:grin:
 
rbwsparky

rbwsparky

Senior Member
Location
Sewickley,PA
We have installed some lutron grafik eye systems, but the need to be wired like PLCs. Homeruns from every device. Very nice for lighting systems.
 
tonyou812

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
Two grand is not going to really be enough to do anything cool with. Maybe some x10 stuff, but Im not a big fan of it. But just the other day I installed a dvr 4 camera "in the box" security system and I do have to say for 550 bucks (What the HO paid for the system) its a good deal. I dont know about its long term reliability but that would seem like a good value for your dollars coupled with some simple x10 stuff. And I do agree with the other poster, even if the home is automated it should definately be wired like a normal home.
 
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alfiesauce

Senior Member
If they are just looking to control some scene lighting in a room or a couple rooms joined to one another the grafic-eye system is a pretty simple system to install.
You can get a 6 channel system for around... 600 bucks? and then a 4 scene selector switch will run you around 125... I'm throwing these numbers off the top of my head so don't get mad if they are off the mark.
You can connect moduals together easily to expand zones, and you can have many different scenes depending on how many remote selector switches you want. It's a great system for larger kitchens imo as you push one button and your cans, pendants, ucs, puck lights, ropelighting all come on at once to where you want it without having switch holes all over the place so that people a- won't remember what they do and b-won't use the lights available as much.
Just keep track of your available watts being used and use power moduals as needed to expand the power capability of the main control.
This system is also very expandable to get integrated inot the x-10 networks as well as some of the more technologically advanced stuff if they ever wanted to upgrade and control their coffee maker from their ipod while surfing online while driving mach chicken on the freeway.
 
mikeames

mikeames

Senior Member
Location
Gaithersburg MD
Occupation
Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
Leviton Vizia+ Z wave is a good choice. This summer I put them in a 30 million dollar house on 30th st DC. They do the job without having the house wired any different. My plan is to add them to my house in the future. Your looking at ~ $100 a device. In addition to that you need a remote to programe the system which is ~$140

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=16456&minisite=10025

you can get them at the supply house or online

http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Leviton-zwave/
 
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