Home owner calculation

[Mdowdy@lsmech.com]

This is the calculation I received from a homeowner. The house is roughly 3000 S.F single family with attached garage. Gas heat, Gas water heater (tankless), Gas cooking. How do you respond when this math is on DIY internet?
Thanks,
Mike

 

[infinity]

Whoever did that "calculation" (and I'm saying that in quotes because they don't have a clue) needs to be shown a proper load calculation. For what you've mentioned size wise with NG appliances a 200 amp service should be more that larger enough.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[ron]

It is to kindly describe load diversity and load calculations available in Article 220

 

[winnie]

Is the homeowner claiming that an install you did is undersized, and asking you to give them something, or is the homeowner claiming that their existing service is undersized and asking to buy something from you?

If the former, show then a proper load calculation, and explain that while the panel would be overloaded if all of the connected breakers were being used at full capacity all the time, in a properly designed system not everything runs at full blast all the time.

If the latter, state that your charge for a proper evaluation of their electrical system, including a complete load calculation is $XX, explain that without full analysis their system sounds fine, and ask if they've noticed any problems that they think require a professional evaluation.

-Jon

 

[K8MHZ]

I would tell the customer that the figures are useless and mean nothing to a licensed electrician. No load information was provided. Breakers are not loads.

 

[al hildenbrand]

How do you respond when this math is on DIY internet?

I run into variations of this thinking from time to time. Usually, the person is really trying to understand what is happening, but has been mislead by the "importance" most people give the safety devices in the service center. . .

I start by saying this is a somewhat common misconception. But it is a misconception. Breakers don't "use" power. They are basically switches that allow energy to flow, or they interrupt it, but they don't make the electric meter spin. The actual "real" load on an electrical service is the Wattage of the coffee maker, light bulb, etc. all added up. At any instant in time, the ONLY load is the Wattage that is actually turned on and running.

I pause, and let the person digest the idea, and, usually, a few questions happen. I assure the person that the sum of the numbers on the breaker handles has no relationship at all to the actual load in their home.

Whether the conversation goes much further is entirely a function of how open the person is to learning.

 

[LarryFine]

And they have no idea what power factor is.

 

[charlie b]

If you need an analogy to help the person understand, here is a (rather old, but still useful) one: Bank informs patron that their account is overdrawn. Patron says, "that is not possible, since I still have unused checks in my checkbook."

 

[Mdowdy@lsmech.com]

More information

More information

This calculation was taken from Hunker.com by the father of a new homeowner. His claim was the service was grossly undersized, an obvious code violation, and safety hazard. He requested a 320Amp service be wired and installed at no charge to correct this obvious error. The home had passed all inspections, the meter was installed and had received the cities final.

 

[Gary11734]

This is the calculation I received from a homeowner. The house is roughly 3000 S.F single family with attached garage. Gas heat, Gas water heater (tankless), Gas cooking. How do you respond when this math is on DIY internet?
Thanks,
Mike

You can't fix stupid. Have the guy turn EVERYTHING on in the house and then go put an Amp probe on the service wires... He will think your meter is broke...

 

[infinity]

This calculation was taken from Hunker.com by the father of a new homeowner. His claim was the service was grossly undersized, an obvious code violation, and safety hazard. He requested a 320Amp service be wired and installed at no charge to correct this obvious error. The home had passed all inspections, the meter was installed and had received the cities final.

Why he would use an incorrect calculation that he found on the internet to try and prove a point is beyond me. I hope that no one actually spent a second of their time responding to this ignorance.

 

[growler]

The house is roughly 3000 S.F single family with attached garage. Gas heat, Gas water heater (tankless), Gas cooking. How do you respond when this math is on DIY internet?
Thanks,
Mike

I would suggest they hire a third party (licensed contractor or engineer ) to do a real load calculation.

The guy sounds nuts, there is a lot of that going around.

 

[K8MHZ]

Why he would use an incorrect calculation that he found on the internet to try and prove a point is beyond me. I hope that no one actually spent a second of their time responding to this ignorance.

In order to get this for free, maybe?

"He requested a 320Amp service be wired and installed at no charge"

 

[growler]

Folks the homeowner may not be crazy or even nuts because they actually have a method listed on Hunker.com of doing a breaker panel load calculation. I'm not sure what the results are supposed to mean. It's not a service calculation.

www.hunker.com/12285752/how-to-calculate-a-breaker-panel-load

 

[electrofelon]

And they have no idea what power factor is.

Yeah, he "went the wrong way.". At least it made the calc come out smaller

 

[infinity]

Folks the homeowner may not be crazy or even nuts because they actually have a method listed on Hunker.com of doing a breaker panel load calculation. I'm not sure what the results are supposed to mean. It's not a service calculation.

www.hunker.com/12285752/how-to-calculate-a-breaker-panel-load

I don't know what Hunker.com is but their method of adding up the ratings of all of the CB's in the panel in an effort to find the service size is a joke. :slaphead:

 

[david luchini]

I don't know what Hunker.com is but their method of adding up the ratings of all of the CB's in the panel in an effort to find the service size is a joke. :slaphead:

I once saw an electrician tell an owner that his 225A panel was overloaded because it had forty two 20A circuit breaker...42*20=840A.

 

[infinity]

I once saw an electrician tell an owner that his 225A panel was overloaded because it had forty two 20A circuit breaker...42*20=840A.

Pretty much the theme of this thread.

 

[growler]

I don't know what Hunker.com is but their method of adding up the ratings of all of the CB's in the panel in an effort to find the service size is a joke. :slaphead:

I didn't know what hunker was and still don't but I just posted the method (link) they have for doing some sort of calculation.

They don't even say it's a service load calculation. The homeowner must think that's what he is calculating.

It's easy to see how people can get confused these days with all the misinformation out there.

 

[Besoeker3]

My good golly gosh!
What kind of dwelling needs a 600A supply??