Home works and switch legs

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eds

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We are getting ready to do the electrical rough in on a large home, the owner has decided to have a Home Works system installed. Today during a brief meeting with are company and the installer of the Home works system, I asked for a brief over view of the system ( I have not seen or been involved with one before). During this conversation it was mentioned that I will bring 20 amp circuits to the dimming panels and leave the dimming panel with switch legs to the various lighting groups on this system, it was at this point that they informed me I could use 14 for my switch legs because these individual modules will limit the current on my switch legs. I beleive that these switch legs should be #12. Anybody install these systems and if so, is #12 pulled as swith legs
 
This system is made by Lutron and I have not been able to get any good technical info about this. I know 20 amp circuits require #12 , just wondering if this system may incorporate some type of breakers on a din rail or some other means of over current protection .
 
I'm a Lutron Homeworks certified installer and have never heard of what you were told.

You can feed the lighting modules with #14 or #12 depending on how much of a load is placed on it. The loads coming from the module must be the same size wire as the feed to be protected by the OCPD.
 
Reading you post again I saw you mentioned switch legs. If in fact you are using switch legs and the lighting is seperatly powered from the controlling module you could feed a relay module with #12 and size the lighting switch leg conductors differently. This sound like a very odd install and you would not be able to dim the lights with them controlled by relays.
 
I have done homeworks and radio ra and either one needs the switch legs to be the same as the circuit. If the hw installer lays the circuits out well you should be able to do everything on a 15 amp circuit. The house we did I believe we only had one 20 amp circuit the rest were 15amps.
 
I am working on a house currently with a "Vantage" system it is similar to the Homeworks system. I ran #12-2 for the feeds to the panel "with the intention of putting them on 15 amp circuit breakers" then #14-2 as switch legs. I did this because of the length of the wire runs and voltage drop. Since all the switch legs have to go back to the control panel it makes for some very long wire runs. You still do need to match the OCP to the circuit.
 
acrwc10 said:
I ran #12-2 for the feeds to the panel "with the intention of putting them on 15 amp circuit breakers" then #14-2 as switch legs. I did this because of the length of the wire runs and voltage drop.
Click to expand...
I wonder if a sub-panel near the lighting control would have been more economical.
 
Are we talking about switch legs which are powered by a source other than the dimming panel ,has its own OCPD and uses a relay within the dimming panel? Or are we talking about a load coming from the dimming panel that is protected by the same OCPD?
 
I did 2 homeworks systems. The first I wired just as I would a regular house and the HW switches were used in place of the standard switches.

The other system I wired to a remote spot like a closet, and had a bank of siwtches where the HW switches were installed and from there they used keypad switches throughout the house. In either case there was no dimming panel just a 4 gang box with the HW switches in it.
 
Homeworks

Homeworks

First off ,if you are installing Lutron Homeworks systems , someone in your company should be certified by Lutron. The way to learn what you can and cannot do with Lutron systems should not be from trial and error. If several panels are being installed and integration is involved , these systems can be very expensive . The fact ,that you are asking about wire sizing for lighting loads should be a huge warning . If you are installing homeworks and are questioning basic theory, code ,and installation , ask your local Lutron rep. about school and training for Lutron systems , they will ussually work with you. Poor installations give Homeworks systems a bad wrap , and scare potential clients away from lighting systems.
 
TAHOE,

In the OP he states" in a meeting between our company and the installer of

the Home Works system" blaa blaa. What was second off?
 
TAHOE SPARKY said:
First off ,if you are installing Lutron Homeworks systems , someone in your company should be certified by Lutron. The way to learn what you can and cannot do with Lutron systems should not be from trial and error. If several panels are being installed and integration is involved , these systems can be very expensive . The fact ,that you are asking about wire sizing for lighting loads should be a huge warning . If you are installing homeworks and are questioning basic theory, code ,and installation , ask your local Lutron rep. about school and training for Lutron systems , they will ussually work with you. Poor installations give Homeworks systems a bad wrap , and scare potential clients away from lighting systems.
Click to expand...

The fact that the OP was questioning the size of the conductors is good! He found a flaw in what the installers were telling him. Most of the Lutron installers are audio/video companies and have limited knowledge of NEC codes and electrical theory
 
Thanks for all of the responses and just to clear up some issues, first I am not installing the home works panel, second it just struck me as odd that this installer would suggest that #14 switch legs could be run with ocp at 20 amps. The reason I posted was to gain a little more insight on the home works system. The installer briefly explained there were 4 set ups, wire the house like I normaly would and they would install switches, wireless, a dimming panel that would be fed like a main lug panel, and a dimming panel that has differant module that I bring circuits to and then leave with switch legs. The third options sounds the best to me, but they said this is used mainly in commercial applications. I beleive we are going with the last option. On the question of # 14 protected by a 20 amp ocp if the wire was a listed fixture wire and followed the rules of 240.5 (b) (2) this would be allowed. Thanks again for the responses
 
Just for the record. I got a response from Lutron HWI support today and their response was "If the RPMs (the items within the dimming panel that control the lighting circuit loads) are feed with a 20A circuit, the load wires must be able to handle it so they would need to be #12"
 
Just to update, I spoke with the home works installer today and what ever my ocp to the home works system is, my switch leg wiring will match that. I did ask him to design the system to utilize 15 amp ocp when ever possible, I will need to take some time soon and review this system and its componets. Thanks again for the responses
 
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