Homeline & Arc Fault Warning

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Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
I ran into a situation this morning where the HO wanted to sell his house and the inspector said they needed an arc fault in the basement family room. Long story but the insp. department considered it a bedroom.

The HO hired a handy man who installed 2 sp arc fault breakers on a MWBC. Of course the breakers would not work so they called for help.

Made some calls and after an hour I finally called SQ. D who said they don't even make a DP arch fault for the homeline panel.

So all you guys who use homeline be careful about those MWBC. It seems every other brand makes them except homeline.
 
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Magnus

Member
Location
Michigan
Wow! I install Homeline almost exclusively for my resi panels. After a quick search of the Square D catalog, you are right! (Not that I doubted you. Its just the whole "I read it on line so it must be true!" thing) I guess I really need to be careful on existing upgrades too, where a 2 pole AFCI might already be installed. Thanks for the heads up!
 
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donselectric

Senior Member
Location
nh
thats why i deal only with my supply house...i know i can get what i need
dont even go in homedeblow unless they have a wire sale...my supplier beats
them any plus i'm in and out unlike big box stores...:cool:
 
mdshunk

mdshunk

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Right here.
iwire said:
Not that I install them but I though it was only CH making 2 P Arc Faults?
Click to expand...
In fact, they have been for nearly a couple years now. They have a 2-pole common trip version for 240 volt only circuits and a 2-pole independent trip version, which is suitable for a MWBC. When you're faced with and old fuse box or brand of panel in old work other than Cutler-Hammer, and you need to AFCI an existing MWBC, just subfeed out to a little 2-circuit CH box and move the MWBC over to that and use a CH 2-pole AFCI.

Here is the Cutler-Hammer AFCI catalog section, where you can read about their 2-pole independent trip breaker. They also have other exotic AFCI products such as the newly required "combination type" AFCI, and combination AFCI/GFCI (5ma) breakers.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=143326
 
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Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
iwire said:
Not that I install them but I though it was only CH making 2 P Arc Faults?
Click to expand...

I saw that seimens has them and I knew Cutler hammer had them.

I assumed GE also did so I checked. Here it is-- these are GE arc fault breakers.


cb-qafci.gif
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Illinois
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I know that the CH catalog says that the two pole AFCI device is an independant trip device. I have never understood how that is electrically possible when there is a built in ground fault trip and there is a common neutral. This document says:
Each of the two poles of an AFIT circuit breaker will trip independently on a thermal or magnetic trip, but both will trip in the event of an arcing fault or a ground fault greater than 30mA.
Click to expand...
That makes a lot more sense to me. I know that this document is for a bolt on breaker, but I doubt that they make the operation different between the plug on and bolt on versions of the breaker.
Don
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
don_resqcapt19 said:
I know that the CH catalog says that the two pole AFCI device is an independant trip device. I have never understood how that is electrically possible when there is a built in ground fault trip and there is a common neutral. This document says:
That makes a lot more sense to me. I know that this document is for a bolt on breaker, but I doubt that they make the operation different between the plug on and bolt on versions of the breaker.
Don
Click to expand...

I also am intrigued by that but as a non technical guy I just assume they have the electronics to do it.

The other day the electrical inspection department called me up and asked me why two individual SP arc fault breakers would not work on a multiwire branch circuit. I gave them my technical answer. "It just won't, the electronics are such that you would need a dp arc fault. They are designed for this application." Best I coud do.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
jxofaltrds said:
Was there egress? Was a closet in the room?
Click to expand...

Yes to both and each inspection area has their own interpretation. A room can have a closet and egress but still not be considered a bedroom.

We are working on one now that is not qualifying because you have to work across the living room to get to a bathroom.

In this scenario, the room is the only room in the basement so they puit a bathroom down there. The closet is for the toys. I understand that the room could be used for a bedroom but that is not my call. I think it looks like a rec room but what does that matter. Building department makes that call-- not me
 
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moresi

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14-2-2, 12-2-2

14-2-2, 12-2-2

Curious- are any of you using romex that has 2 neutrals for your MWBC and placing them on single pole AFCI's? This is how we did it when AFCI's were first introduced and the wire was readily available. Most places do not seem to carry the cable now. I am sure it has to do with copper costs. I primarily use Homelina panels for resi work and often run the extra neutral conductor romex. (when I can get it)
 
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