Homeowner GC

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jeff43222

Senior Member
Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
I was hired last year to do a service upgrade on a house. The homeowner was (and still is) in the process of gutting the whole place, and he indicated to me that he only wanted me to install the new service and circuits for the laundry, electric dryer, electric water heater, and a general-use receptacle mounted to the panelboard. He planned on wiring up the rest of the house himself. I pulled a permit and listed the above items.

So last summer I did the new service and installed the general-use receptacle at the panel. We decided to wait on the rest because the appliances weren't installed yet. I had the work I did inspected, and the utility came out and connected the new service after the inspector OKed it.

The other day the homeowner called me and said he's ready for me to come back and finish things up. I went over to the house the other day and discovered that the wiring job he did was loaded with violations, and he never pulled a homeowner permit to do any of the work. I also found the lights he couldn't get to work had a H-N voltage of about 40V, so I made a temp fix to get them working. Additionally, the homeowner now wants me to also wire up the new furnace, the new A/C, and add some outdoor receptacles, the latter to be connected to the wiring he has already installed. He also wants me to connect all his homeruns at the panel.

Further complicating matters is that the permit I pulled was through the city, and a two months afterward the city repealed all the ordinances regarding permits and inspections for electrical work, so all new permits are now pulled through the state. The city says I don't have to pull a new permit because of this change, and they are still supposed to inspect any jobs for permits pulled before the change, but I suspect I may have a difficult time getting a city inspector out under these circumstances.

So now I'm in this interesting position of being asked to do work that wasn't listed on the permit I pulled, and do it on wiring that may or may not be right, that wasn't done under any permit. Adding work after a permit was pulled isn't generally a big deal; the AHJ generally just sends a bill for the extra circuits. But I certainly don't want to add his wiring to the permit I pulled, and I really don't want to add anything to it.

I'm tempted to tell the homeowner I can only do what I listed on the permit (plus the furnace and A/C), but he's on his own for the work he did. Anyone else have a good strategy for dealing with this kind of thing?
 
Re: Homeowner GC

This is clearly a change of scope from your previous contract. That opens the door to renegotiation.

First, you tell him that his work was not done properly. Do it kindly, not spitefully.

No, check that. That is what you do second. The first thing you do is to compliment him on whatever you can see that was done well. Build up his ego five levels before you knock his ego down three levels.

Next, you tell him that it is going to cost him more just to undo his errors. Then you tell him that you can't give a firm price until you do a complete inspection, figure out exactly what is built and how it is build, and figure out how to make it right.

Finally, you invite him to get a second opinion (i.e., competitive bid) from another contractor. If this means you lose the job, then you are probably better off. If you do what he wants, then you become responsible for everything you touch, even if he touched it first.
 
Re: Homeowner GC

Adding work items to the existing permit should not be a problem. I would discuss it with your Inspector. I would be very careful about taking responsibility for the home owners wiring job. You are the contractor and therefore are liable for any defect in or damage caused by your work. I would tell the home owner that I will do all the wiring or I am not interested. Good luck.
 
Re: Homeowner GC

If the home owner is gutting the whole place he should get a remodeling or building permit to start with. He should be able to pull his rewire permit under that. If the walls are open he will have to get a rough inspection before covering the wire. I would send the home owner down to get the proper permits under his own name. In this area you can't get a permit for just electrical if any remodeling is being done. They like to make sure the whole job is up to code. If he wants to do the job under the table I would let him get someone else. If he doesn't do the electrical right then he probably hasn't done the other work right.
 
Re: Homeowner GC

Originally posted by charlie b:
Then you tell him that you can't give a firm price until you do a complete inspection, figure out exactly what is built and how it is build, and figure out how to make it right.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a T&M propsal to me...from "pre-"inspection to final inspection.


This is quite a log-jam.
charlie b had some excellant pointers on how to approach this pickle.
I would also add...when you are in the ego knocking down phase...that the installations performed w/o proper permits will probably NOT be covered by his HO's insurance in the event of fire or any other electrical related claim. The city may also issue fines and penalties - and he will forever be on the city's "watch-list"...that's "their" tax money he's avoiding.
 
Re: Homeowner GC

Adopt some hardfast business procedures. They can keep you out of situations like this. Remember, we electrical contractors provide a very valuable service. Don't sell yourself short. Set the customer's expectation high. That is you are providing a valuable service AND they must pay for it.
Changes in scope like this are loaded with risk. You can and will get his problems resolved, but only because you are a good electrical contractor. Get paid for it.

OK, I am stepping down from the soap box now. I'll kill the music too. :D
 
Re: Homeowner GC

Thanks for all the replies. Good food for thought.

I'm not concerned about the change of scope of the project. I've found the homeowner easy to deal with and someone who believes in paying his bills. Also, adding items to what was previously listed on a permit hasn't been a problem with the inspectors. They understand that sometimes plans change mid-course, and they deal with this situation by just sending me a bill to cover the additional circuits.

When I looked things over the other day, I did make some comments about how I thought some of his circuits were designed well (e.g., "That's how I would have done it."). Still, at first glance it's obvious the work wasn't done by a pro. I'm not actually responsible for the work he did, so I really don't have to undo it, especially if I don't touch it.

But some of the work he wants me to do now would pretty much require me to tap into his wiring, and I would rather not do so knowing that the work has not been inspected. The homeowner has pulled a remodeling permit, but he's had so much trouble with one building inspector that he's hesitant to pull more permits. In his defense, this particular building inspector is notorious for being very difficult. She is known for failing jobs, and, when asked what the problem is, she'd respond with "It's not my job to design it for you!" Imagine failing an electrical inspection and not being told why, only that it's red-tagged.

I think the best course of action for me is to insist that he pull a homeowner's permit to cover the work he's done, and once it passes, I'll be happy to do the additional work he wants me to do. I'll point out the voltage problem he had on one of his circuits and mention that his wiring could very well cause real problems down the road, so it would be better to get it inspected.

In the future, I'm going to have a policy in place in advance in case anyone wants me to get involved with wiring they did themselves.
 
Re: Homeowner GC

I don't understand why a city would allow a home owner permit. If a homeowner wants to do a homeowner job around here, there give the homeowner a test. Most don't have a chance of passing. I just talked to a guy today. He origianally had a guy come rough in a complete remodel. Now the guy isn't responsive to come back. The homeowner did the letter writing to the county required to fire the guy. I told the homeowner that I'd do the job T&M. Talked to him today and he was trying to tell me the original guy is a little more responsive, and he is not sure who he is going to do the trim, but he wants me to do the service. I told him without knowing who is doing the trim, I don't want the service. I'm sure he is thinking about doing the trim himself and trying to get it passed on my service permit. I know it doesn't work like that, but I'm not sure he does.
 
Re: Homeowner GC

This is not much diferant than walking into any 1920's house.Likely none of it was inspected and perhaps not to code.The best way to handle this is to get the electrical inspector out to the job and walk it with both you and the owner.Let him know exactly what you have done to date and that your now wanting to finish his started job.Have a letter signed by this owner relieving you of any and all mistakes he made.To cover yourself i would do this on T&M only.As long as the owner is willing to pay i would help him.
 
Re: Homeowner GC

I happened to run into the state director of inspections yesterday, and I ran the scenario past him. He said the homeowner should definitely get a permit and get his work inspected.

So I just called the homeowner and explained the situation to him, and he's going to go pull a permit. Once it passes rough-in, I'll go back and hook up his homeruns (I still have a few other tasks to complete under the permit I pulled). The homeowner's main concern was that the electrical inspector would be an unreasonable jerk, based on his experiences with an infamous city building inspector. I told him I knew the state electrical inspector and have found him to be easy to deal with.

In the end, I think things will work out OK on this job. Thanks for the input.
 
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