Horizontal panel installation

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Greg1707

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No, this photo is not sideways! This is an actual photo of the panel with an inspection sticker approving the installation.
 

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Happen to be installed in Canada ??
(I ask as I see that on one of the "remodel" shows on TV and know its s violation of the NEC. My understanding is that it is permissible under Canadian Code and the show is filmed in Canada)
 
Greg1707 said:
Ok So this panel is good to go?
Click to expand...

Good to go, and typical in Canada, not acceptable in the US.
If you see it in the US it suggests an electrician who moved down across the border and an inspector who did not care about that nicety of the NEC.

I can't read the jurisdiction information on the approval sticker.
 
Greg1707 said:
No, this photo is not sideways! This is an actual photo of the panel with an inspection sticker approving the installation.
Click to expand...

Canadian panels will have the Main Breaker in a separate compartment from the branch circuit breakers/conductors. The Canadian theory is that this orientation is safer than vertical installs in the U.S. Is there a picture of inside a horizontal panel. Where's Rampage Rick, he's from Canada ?
 
John120/240 said:
Canadian panels will have the Main Breaker in a separate compartment from the branch circuit breakers/conductors. The Canadian theory is that this orientation is safer than vertical installs in the U.S. Is there a picture of inside a horizontal panel. Where's Rampage Rick, he's from Canada ?
Click to expand...
Canadian panels after the '70s have a split cover such that you can work on the branch circuit breakers with the main off with no risk of contacting live terminals on the line side of the main. Combo meter/discos aren't done here (well a few oddballs once you get to 400A residential)

I think the horizontal thing is more of an Ontario preference. I can count on one hand the number of horizontal panels I've seen here in BC. We have no rule against breaker handles down in the "on" position, so long as all the handles are less than 1.7 meters above the floor. Branch circuits can't be run through the compartment on the line side of the main, so all the knockouts on that end of the panel are useless. Makes it fun for a panel between studs with main on top, cables have to enter from sides or bottom (99.9% of new construction in BC installed with main on bottom for this reason)
 
JulesBartow said:
So if none of the bottom breakers were installed it'd be ok?

Except the phase load would be unbalanced...?
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Correct.

240.81 Indicating

Circuit breakers shall clearly indicate whether they are in the
open “off” or closed “on” position.
Where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically
rather than rotationally or horizontally, the “up” position of
the handle shall be the “on” position.
Click to expand...

And the load would not be unbalanced because the buss stabs alternate between phases.
 
Rampage_Rick said:
Branch circuits can't be run through the compartment on the line side of the main, so all the knockouts on that end of the panel are useless. Makes it fun for a panel between studs with main on top, cables have to enter from sides or bottom (99.9% of new construction in BC installed with main on bottom for this reason)
Click to expand...

Isn't that exactly why they mount the panels sideways? So you can enter the branch circuits in the top of the panel instead of the bottom?
 
iwire said:
Isn't that exactly why they mount the panels sideways? So you can enter the branch circuits in the top of the panel instead of the bottom?
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I think it is a plan by the Canadians to take over North America by attrition. I bet they figure if they block off the access to line side of their panels while we don't the American male population will blow themselves up in sufficient numbers that they can move in from the north with little resistance.
 
iwire said:
There is no NEC violation in mounting a panelboard sideways

There is a violation in having ON down on the breakers.
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Isn't that kind of an oxymoron seeing as how they don't make panels where you can install breakers so that ALL the breakers will be on if installed sideways isn't possible ? If you take a closer look at the photo you'll see that the "on" position of the main is down. So, in order for your statement to be correct the panel would also have to be oriented the opposite way. If you want to make the argument that only the bottom set of breakers can be installed at the time of inspection that would be fine but then you would have to find a way to prevent any breaker installation in the top set.
 
goldstar said:
Isn't that kind of an oxymoron seeing as how they don't make panels where you can install breakers so that ALL the breakers will be on if installed sideways isn't possible ? If you take a closer look at the photo you'll see that the "on" position of the main is down. So, in order for your statement to be correct the panel would also have to be oriented the opposite way. If you want to make the argument that only the bottom set of breakers can be installed at the time of inspection that would be fine but then you would have to find a way to prevent any breaker installation in the top set.
Click to expand...

You understand what I said perfectly and what happens in the future is for future inspections to watch.
 
iwire said:
You understand what I said perfectly and what happens in the future is for future inspections to watch.
Click to expand...
I understand exactly what you said. But don't you think we have an obligation to prevent future hacks or homeowners from doing the wrong thing?
 
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