I had an electrician mount a panel horizontally because of the limited space. The inspection says it's allowed as long as it complies with 240.33 and 240.81. 240.81 says "Circuit breakers shall clearly indicate whether they are in the open "off" or closed "on" position. Where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotationally or horizontally, the "up" position of the handled shall e the "on" position." Does that mean I can only use the bottom side of the panel that has the breakers that have handles flipping up to the on position? Is there anything that states that the "on" position can be marked on the panel cover if the down position is on or......?
Horizontal panel
- Thread starter ammklq143
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jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
I cannot think of a section/exception for the "up is on/closed" rule for breakers, so you may be limited to using only the bottom section.
Knuckle Dragger
Master Electrician Electrical Contractor 01752
- Location
- Marlborough, Massachusetts USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Most circuit breakers have the OFF and ON clearly marked.
Andy Delle
Senior Member
- Location
- Los Angeles CA
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
They do it because their rules require a barricade over the main lugs, as a result you can't bring wires down into the top.
UL just changed our requirements so you get a rubber booty to over the lugs in a main breaker panel. That's ok. I hope that's good enough to satisfy the hyper safety types. I don't ever want to have to mount a panel sideways.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Technically speaking - yes, but you may still get tagged because the top portion has the ability of having breakers inserted in the future. BTW, the same rule also applies to the main breaker.
Not to my knowledge. The only way I know of that you might be able to do this is to write a letter (on your letter head) to the EI asking for a "Variation in the Code". Cite the Code section you are violating along with an explanation as to why you have a need to create this violation. He may still deny you but it's worth a try.
Thanks for the input everyone. I did speak with the EI and asked what his suggestions were. He said to chalk this one up as a learning experience and said to move as many circuits as I could to the bottom row so he did allow a variance from the code in this situation since there wasn't room to put the panel vertically.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Glad to see you made it through this. I know this may seem like a matter of semantics but for future reference a "variance" and a "variation to the Code" are two different things. A variation to the Code is much easier to accomplish by the method I previously described. A variance, on the other hand, requires public notification, certified letters to your neighbors followed by acceptances by ALL your neighbors and will more than likely cost you $500 + before all is said and done. A variance would really have nothing to do with your situation. You may have to file for a variance if say you had to install your generator too close to your neighbor's property line or house.
controlled
Senior Member
- Location
- Bowmanville, Canada
We don't always do it, but have the option too. We can mount vertical, or horizontal. We can also mount with main lugs at top or bottom.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
We can put main lugs at bottom or top in many cases as well - as long as it doesn't leave a breaker in position where ON is down position of handle. This was once a problem with main breakers but many now have a handle that operates horizontally or the breaker is able to be turned over if handle operates vertically.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
What is the reasoning behind 404.7? Has anyone ever seen a switch or circuit breaker so loose gravity would overcome its internal resistance to being switched? Or is it a safety measure, or just a long-held standard?
The only thing I can think of would be something falliyon on it or leaning on it to accidentally turn it on if it was because someone was servicing something , I guess there would be less of a chance if it turned on if on was in the up position
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Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
I don't think it was anything other than a persistent hand wringer not giving up till he got his code change because he didn't like the idea of turning off some breakers by flipping them up. I've worked on some old SqD panels where 404.7 was not in play yet and I never had a problem knowing which way was off.
Knuckle Dragger
Master Electrician Electrical Contractor 01752
- Location
- Marlborough, Massachusetts USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I apologise for going off the topic.
Does anyone know what the proper procedure is to make a code change to this article?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I could be wrong but I think you must do it on line now. NFPA website should be able to navigate you to the correct place also, as it will be an NFPA page you must go to.
Yes you do and that is what the code book tells you to do, it gives you the website address and how to go about it.
Roger
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