Horse riding barn in PVC

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sw_ross

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I was in a structure that is approx 60 x 100 with dirt floor and open truss construction. It's a "barn" used as a horse riding "area" (not sure about the definition of "arena" and if it would be classified as that). Mostly used for horse riding/training, etc., when the weather is inclement.

Everything is run in PVC. I'm wondering why the electrician chose to go that route. Looking at 547 seems to give a variety of options for wiring methods. I think I would've chosen to go EMT unless there's a reason it wouldn't be allowed?

I wouldn't consider the area a Corrosive Atmosphere, 547.1 (B). There's a little bit of horse crap on the ground, but for the most part it's kept pretty clean.

All the light fixtures are high-bay LED (40 of them). They're not protected from moisture or dust, just the same type fixture you'd see in a shop or warehouse.

Seems like a lot of extra expense to use PVC. if anything I might have use EMT with WP fittings and boxes, but I still kinda think it's not an environment that you couldn't use normal j-boxes and set-screw fittings.

Let me know if I'm missing something here.
Thanks!
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I would not call a horse barn an ag building. I believe Mike Holt would call it an ag building
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According to the CMP it is an agricultural building. I wrote a PI to add the word equine to that section to end the confusion but the CMP stated that it wasn't needed because horses are considered livestock.

Public Input No. 3967-NFPA 70-2014 [ Section No. 547.1(A) ]
(A) Excessive Dust and Dust with Water.
Agricultural buildings where excessive dust and dust with water may accumulate, including all areas of
equine, poultry, livestock, and fish confinement systems, where litter dust or feed dust, including mineral
feed particles, may accumulate.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The use of the word "livestock" in this section seems to confuse designers, installer and inspectors where the
agricultural buildings are used for horses. Horses are by definition "livestock" but many are confused as to
whether or not buildings that house them fall under this section. The addition of the word "equine" to scope of this
Article will clarify that horse barns and other similar buildings used for equine are covered under this Article.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name:robert meier
Organization: NA
Street Address:
City:
State:
Zip:
Submittal Date: Wed Nov 05 17:27:08 EST 2014
Committee Statement
Resolution: The USDA definition of livestock includes equine, and this revision does not add to clarity.
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I meant Mike Holt would not call it an ag building. I was unsure but being that you wrote that proposal and they said it was not necessary then I guess it is.... I don't know why they just didn't add the word.
 
Expansion fittings

Expansion fittings

It seemed to me that the PVC was more involved regarding fittings (T's, etc.)

Also they didn't use expansion fitting at all. It was a cold day (30's) when I was there yesterday and I noticed a male adapter pulled out of one of the fixtures due to contraction.

I know you can heat up and bend the PVC but I can bend EMT a lot faster than a stick of PVC!
 
We have a customer with a large riding arena. The original electrician used nm cable. During calving season, it's used for that. Most of the year it shelters trailer s of various kinds. Now it has a a two story office in one end right next to the horse wash bay and the gates for roping events. I consider none of it as an agricultural building and the wiring methods vary from nm, mc, EMT and PVC to shielded VFD cable. Whatever works.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I meant Mike Holt would not call it an ag building. I was unsure but being that you wrote that proposal and they said it was not necessary then I guess it is.... I don't know why they just didn't add the word.
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Yup 6 letters and a comma, that would have been too easy. :D

Actually I didn't expect any change but at least they have clarified their position for future reference.

sw_ross said:
It seemed to me that the PVC was more involved regarding fittings (T's, etc.)

Also they didn't use expansion fitting at all. It was a cold day (30's) when I was there yesterday and I noticed a male adapter pulled out of one of the fixtures due to contraction.

I know you can heat up and bend the PVC but I can bend EMT a lot faster than a stick of PVC!
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That is the reason I would use EMT. I did a horse barn for a friend with PVC and I had expansion fittings everywhere. :slaphead:
 
The majority of our work is ag buildings.

We use a mix of about every wiring method doing dairies, pvc, rigid, emt, nm, mc, sealtite, pvc flex, vfd cable, etc.

For the barns, emt.

I have not done a riding arena, but I imagine we would use emt, pvc is not practical in regards to expansion/contraction and the strict strapping requirements versus emt.
 
sw_ross said:
It seemed to me that the PVC was more involved regarding fittings (T's, etc.)

Also they didn't use expansion fitting at all. It was a cold day (30's) when I was there yesterday and I noticed a male adapter pulled out of one of the fixtures due to contraction.

I know you can heat up and bend the PVC but I can bend EMT a lot faster than a stick of PVC!
Click to expand...
No expansion joints puts a big red tag on the instal. I can’t see enough straps from here either.
 
We almost always use EMT for exposed or overhead work in any kind of barn or agricultural building. PVC for underground.
Rigid / IMC for overhead service/feeder connection masts rarely for anything else.
There are allot of companies out here that offer complete building packages at a competitive cost.
Here if I recall correctly any building permit for a barn where employees will be present is either classed as 'commercial' or 'agricultural building'. The building permit option for 'agricultural building' is pretty inexpensive and minimal compared with commercial. And I would be surprised if any of those barn builders ever go with a commercial permit.
However once they go that route then the building is forever classified as agricultural and it does not matter what they actually use it for, 547.1 (A) and (B) are assumed to apply to any electrical work from then on. Commercial leaves more options open for wiring methods.
 
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