Hospital Code Violations....

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mxslick

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
During the week-long stay in the hospital I just ended today, a few Code violations caught my eye. Sorry. don't have any pics, the battery on my cell phone was dead...thankfully I am not. :D

First off, the obvious one: Receptacle right above the sink and next to the metal-framed mirror was NOT a GFCI;

Second, and the one I'm not 100% sure is a violation, is that the bath lights, the aforementioned receptacle and one of the Gen. Purp. recepts between the two beds were ALL ON THE SAME CIRCUIT!!! This according to the nicely labeled plates.

Thankfully the medical essential recepts were on a different circuit and panel.

Anyone else seen either of those Violations before?
 
the receptacle over the sink could have been downstream from a GFI, perhaps a GFI receptacle in the bathroom thats back to back with yours. (is there some requirement for hospital for each receptacle to be gfi?)
 
i don't see any problem with the bath lights and the two receptacles all being on the same circuit.

There is a good chance the outlet by the sink wasn't a violation either. The rule that everyone thought existed (GFCI required within 6' of a sink) has never been before the 2008 NEC>

Also, there is an exception for sinks in patient rooms. I think it is mentioned in the NEC, and I know its in NFPA 99.

And if the toilet and sink are both in the patient's room, a receptacle beside those dosn't have to be gfci.

I'm not sure how that is going to work now that the NEC is more explicit about GFCI's by sinks.
 
In both the 2005 and 2008 NEC art 517.21 gives the exception to allow a non-GFCI recepticle if the sink or toilet are in the patient room.
 
KevinVost said:
In both the 2005 and 2008 NEC art 517.21 gives the exception to allow a non-GFCI recepticle if the sink or toilet are in the patient room.
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Thanks..now the question becomes if the bathroom has a door into the patient room is it still considered as being in the same room? :) My definition of "In the same room" means NO dividing walls or doors 'tween the two.


steve66 said:
i don't see any problem with the bath lights and the two receptacles all being on the same circuit.
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Why? I would think the lighting and recepts should be separate so that you don't lose room lighting (the bathroom has no window so lights out would leave almost total darkness). IIRC we can't do lights and recepts in residential on the same circuit, so why would it be allowed in a hospital?

And, to add to my original post, I need to state that the room lights were also on that same circuit.

Now load-wise, I'm sure there was nowhere near 16 amps (80% of 20) on that circuit, but still seems like a bad idear to me...
 
First off are you OK? Insurance does not let you stay a week for a hangnail.

As far as the lights and plug sharing a circuit where is that prohibited? It is somewhat limited in dwelling unit bathrooms but leave the dwelling unit and it becomes entirely a design decision. :smile:
 
mxslick said:
Thanks..now the question becomes if the bathroom has a door into the patient room is it still considered as being in the same room? :) My definition of "In the same room" means NO dividing walls or doors 'tween the two.

I agree, if the bathroom has a door seperating it from the patient room, GFCI required at the sink.
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iwire said:
First off are you OK? Insurance does not let you stay a week for a hangnail.

As far as the lights and plug sharing a circuit where is that prohibited? It is somewhat limited in dwelling unit bathrooms but leave the dwelling unit and it becomes entirely a design decision. :smile:
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Thanks for asking Bob. Yeah, I should be ok now, my blood clots had returned. My primary care doc and I decided to try to get off the blood thinners late Jan as I was getting some side effects from them..my CAT scan and ultrasound from Nov were completely clear, so we thought is would be o.k......turns out we were wrong, and so now I will be on the thinners for the rest of my life. Oh well. Thankfully I got it looked at early this time.

As for the lights/plug sharing..looks like my thought on the subject is based more on design or personal bias than Code....but really thought there was something in the Code, maybe in earlier cycles?....
 
dcspector said:
KevinVost said:
kevin, yes it is or it isn't in the same room 517.21 and agree then if not see 210.8(B)
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I was agreeing with mxslick on his post regarding the definition for the room. If the bathroom is a seperate room (has it's own door and walls seperating it from the patient room) then the GFCI would be required by 210.8(B). If the sink/toilet is in the patient room then 517.21 allows the recepticle to be non-GFCI.
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mxslick said:
Thanks for asking Bob. Yeah, I should be ok now, my blood clots had returned. My primary care doc and I decided to try to get off the blood thinners late Jan as I was getting some side effects from them..my CAT scan and ultrasound from Nov were completely clear, so we thought is would be o.k......turns out we were wrong, and so now I will be on the thinners for the rest of my life. Oh well. Thankfully I got it looked at early this time.

As for the lights/plug sharing..looks like my thought on the subject is based more on design or personal bias than Code....but really thought there was something in the Code, maybe in earlier cycles?....
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PS - Glad to hear you are doing OK :D
 
KevinVost said:
dcspector said:
I was agreeing with mxslick on his post regarding the definition for the room. If the bathroom is a seperate room (has it's own door and walls seperating it from the patient room) then the GFCI would be required by 210.8(B). If the sink/toilet is in the patient room then 517.21 allows the recepticle to be non-GFCI.
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Agreed Kevin I did not word my post correctly...we are on the same page:smile:
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KevinVost said:
dcspector said:
I was agreeing with mxslick on his post regarding the definition for the room. If the bathroom is a seperate room (has it's own door and walls seperating it from the patient room) then the GFCI would be required by 210.8(B). If the sink/toilet is in the patient room then 517.21 allows the recepticle to be non-GFCI.
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What's the reason that it's allowed to go against the rule? My thinking would be it's still a water source. I've done new work on several hospitals and the prints always called for a GFI by sinks, whether it's a lab, patient room, staff washroom what have. Job spec and not code req? Interesting.
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daleuger said:
KevinVost said:
What's the reason that it's allowed to go against the rule? My thinking would be it's still a water source. I've done new work on several hospitals and the prints always called for a GFI by sinks, whether it's a lab, patient room, staff washroom what have. Job spec and not code req? Interesting.
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My understanding is that if hospital staff need to utilize the recepticle in the room next to the sink (517.21) for some kind of equipment they do not want the GFCI to trip and possibly cause the equipment to not function, hence killing or causing further injury to the patient (even though the circuit is not required to be on e-power I guess any extra recepticle for equipment is welcomed). The recepticle in the bath would require some form of extension cord and we all know that 400.8 prohibits the use of cords run through doors :D

That being said, I have seen plenty of job specs that call for GFCI in that location, it's just not required by code.
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KevinVost said:
daleuger said:
My understanding is that if hospital staff need to utilize the recepticle in the room next to the sink (517.21) for some kind of equipment they do not want the GFCI to trip and possibly cause the equipment to not function, hence killing or causing further injury to the patient (even though the circuit is not required to be on e-power I guess any extra recepticle for equipment is welcomed). The recepticle in the bath would require some form of extension cord and we all know that 400.8 prohibits the use of cords run through doors :D

That being said, I have seen plenty of job specs that call for GFCI in that location, it's just not required by code.
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That makes sense and would have been quite important with the early medical gear, but now virtually all medical equipment has battery backup. In fact the IV pump I was hooked up to had battery backup, and I was after the first day of bed rest encouraged to get up and walk around as much as possible. I would chase the nurses around, and go the the main nurse's desk to look at my heart rate telemetry.

Interesting that the Code appears to be silent on this in a way (since the idea of if a bathroom is part of the patient room can be subject to interpretation) and that it is a job spec instead.

For what it's worth, I am not sure how old the hospital I was in is, but is is not "new", if I had to guess it was built in the early 80's or maybe before...
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mxslick said:
KevinVost said:
That makes sense and would have been quite important with the early medical gear, but now virtually all medical equipment has battery backup. In fact the IV pump I was hooked up to had battery backup, and I was after the first day of bed rest encouraged to get up and walk around as much as possible. I would chase the nurses around, and go the the main nurse's desk to look at my heart rate telemetry.

Interesting that the Code appears to be silent on this in a way (since the idea of if a bathroom is part of the patient room can be subject to interpretation) and that it is a job spec instead.

For what it's worth, I am not sure how old the hospital I was in is, but is is not "new", if I had to guess it was built in the early 80's or maybe before...
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Chasing the nurses around sounds like a great way to spend time stuck in a hospital :D

I didn't even think of the battery back up on most medical equipment, which is maybe why job specs are more common to put GFCI in place. Sounds like we might have a proposal for the next CMP :D
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