Hospital Grade Receptacles

Status
Not open for further replies.
georgeswe

georgeswe

Senior Member
Location
The Republic of Southern California
We are trying to get through plan check at a dental office in downtown Los Angeles. The Plan Checker is saying that I have to install Hospital Grade Receptacles per a correction. I have been looking at Article 517 and we did provide a redundant ground MC to satisfy the 517.12 "wiring methods" portion. However, I?m having a hard time locating where we need to install the Hospital Grade Rec. This Facility does not have med gas nor hospital beds. Although they are calling the rooms as OP 1, Op 2, these rooms are not operating rooms. I have an appointment tomorrow to clear the corrections and want to make sure I?m in the right. Any help would be appreciated.
 
It would appear they're considering it an anesthetizing location per NEC 517.61(C)(2). I think the hospital grade requirement was a change from the 2005 to 2008 NEC.
 
HG receptacles are not required in these exam areas, the only place they are required per the NEC and NFPA 99 is in Patient Bed Locations.

517.18(B)

(B)Patient Bed Location Receptacles. Each patient bed location shall be provided with a minimum of four receptacles. They shall be permitted to be of the single or duplex types or a combination of both. All receptacles, whether four or more, shall be listed ?hospital grade? and so identified. The grounding terminal of each receptacle shall be connected to an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with Table 250.122.
Click to expand...

and 517.19(B)(2)

(B) Patient Bed Location Receptacles.
(2) Receptacle Requirements. The receptacles required in 517.19(B)(1) shall be permitted to be of the single or duplex types or a combination of both. All receptacles, whether six or more, shall be listed ?hospital grade? and so identified. The grounding terminal of each receptacle shall be connected to the reference grounding point by means of an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor.
Click to expand...

Some of the equipment may include a tag that says something in the effect of "use only with Hospital Grade receptacle" but IMO you would be entitled to a change order if you did not have this information at bid time.

Roger
 
Will they use nitrous oxide? Some dental offices without a med gas system will use portable equipment for nitrous oxide. IMO the use of nitrous oxide causes the chair locations to meet the definition in 517 for "Anesthetizing Location". This in turn triggers the requirements of 517.61(C)(2).
 
Hospital grade receptacles are only required for patient bed locations, defined in 517.2 as an inpatient sleeping bed; or the bed or procedure table used in a critical patient care. You need to look-up the definition of a "Patient Bed Location" I don't think hospital grade receptacles have anything to do with grounding, im pretty sure they are just tamper resistant. If you are doped up on nitrous oxide, you might think its funny to stick an instrument into one of the receptacles, that's where the medical gas comes in.

Either way, I think its up for interpretation. I know I certainly wouldn't want to go to a dentist that didn't supply anesthesia or gas though!.
 
Wow, when I wrote my first reply there were no responses, now there about 10, im slow on the draw I suppose.
 
Pharon said:
It would appear they're considering it an anesthetizing location per NEC 517.61(C)(2). I think the hospital grade requirement was a change from the 2005 to 2008 NEC.
Click to expand...

Ooops, you are right but the OP said there is no Med Gas in the facility.

Roger
 
Npstewart said:
I don't think hospital grade receptacles have anything to do with grounding, im pretty sure they are just tamper resistant. If you are doped up on nitrous oxide, you might think its funny to stick an instrument into one of the receptacles, that's where the medical gas comes in.
Click to expand...
Not all hospital grade receptacles are tamper resistant. They're just a higher quality grade product than they standard commercial or heavy duty grade.
 
I agree with Eprice,

Hospital grade device are required in non-hazardous anesthetizing locations in accordance with 517.61(C)(2).

The definition of anesthetizing location from 517.2 includes the use of such agents for relative analgesia. This would include the use of niotrous oxide in a dental exam room.

Chris
 
roger said:
... but the OP said there is no Med Gas in the facility.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why I asked what I did in post #4. The OP may have just meant that there is no med gas system installed in the building. Does he know for sure that portable nitrous oxide equipment will not be used? That question may be the key issue involved in his meeting with the plan checker.
 
I spoke with the Doctors rep. they said that they do not like to use gas but did not rule out ever not using it. So I think I?ll have to put them in. The rooms have TV monitor receptacles on the walls and receptacles located in cabinetry for computers and other related equipment. I will speak to my inspector and see if there is any discretion that can be used to where we have to install them. I understand what they are trying to achieve with this code now, thanks for the input.
 
georgeswe said:
I spoke with the Doctors rep. they said that they do not like to use gas but did not rule out ever not using it. So I think I’ll have to put them in. The rooms have TV monitor receptacles on the walls and receptacles located in cabinetry for computers and other related equipment. I will speak to my inspector and see if there is any discretion that can be used to where we have to install them. I understand what they are trying to achieve with this code now, thanks for the input.
Click to expand...
Possible use of nitrous oxide opens the door to anesthesizing location requirements, but NO is non-flammable, so location can only be under 517.60(B)...
(B) Other-Than-Hazardous (Classified) Location. Any
inhalation anesthetizing location designated for the exclusive
use of nonflammable anesthetizing agents shall be considered
to be an other-than-hazardous (classified) location.
Click to expand...
If other-than-anesthetizing procedures are performed in the location, it is not an exclusive use location.
 
Ok SPLAIN this to me !!!

This is out of 2005 handbook so probably has been totally changed and I should get my lazy ass up and go buy the 2008 handbook.

517.2 definitions "anesthetizing location" Any area of a facility that has been designated to be used for the administration of any flammable or nonflammable inhalation anesthetic agent in the course of examination or treatment, including the use of the use of such agents for relative analgesia.

In the handbook below this definition is theses two paragraphs:

Paragraph #1

"The definition of anesthetizing location recognizes that in an emergency it may be necessary to administer an anesthetic almost anywhere in a health care facility. However only those areas in a health care facility that are set aside specifically for the induction of anesthetics are required to meet the provisions of Part IV of Article 517. This definition and provisions of Part IV are not intended to apply to the administering of analgesic or local anesthetics, such as might be used in minor medical or dental procedures."

.....wow ok so after that this is a dental facility where they will do minor dental procedures, so I'm good right??? Well, buckle up this is the second paragraph.

Paragraph #2

"The definition of anesthetizing location applies to health care facilities where inhalation anesthetics are used for relative analgesia. The term analgesia is sometimes referred to as "conscious sedation" and is a state of sedation in which the perception of pain is partially blocked and the patient does not loose consciousness. Oral surgeons often use this form of anesthesia. For guidance on flammable anesthetizing locations see annex E of NFPA 00, Standard for health care facilities.


Ok so I?m ready to rip my hair out! This office is a dental office not a oral surgeon. They will administer Novocain ? and occasionally some NO. Reading the 1st paragraph it sounds like I don?t need HG receptacles since "administering of analgesic or local anesthetics? does not apply.
However, continuing on the second paragraph talks about analgesia which is "awake sedation" which is what Nitrous Oxide would be. So in fact, by reading this explanation,
Part IV of Article 517 ABSOLUTLY Applies to EVERY DENTAL OFFICE. ??? Love this book.

Back to square #1

Definition:
RELATIVE ANALGESIA - A state of sedation and partial block of pain perception produced in a patient by the inhalation of concentrations of nitrous oxide insufficient to produce loss of consciousness.
 
Last edited:
Part IV of 517 is not an issue here. None of the US medical facilities ( at least from what I am aware of ) use a flammable anesthetic anymore and if the dental office says the use of of N/O is limited to random uses and not designated to any one area of the facility then I would interpret part IV of Article 517 as a non-issue.

If they set up a system within the facility ( non-portable in nature ) then used it in specific exclusive areas of the facility then part IV would apply. From the original post I don't see where that is the case as it is for possible emergency uses....i have been to the dentist may times and I never got N/O....maybe I missed out on something....;).

BTW..Since it is only a dentist and not an oral surgeon for example who may indeed have patient bed locations, Section 517.18(B) and 517.19 (B)would not apply as what was described would not be a patient bed location.

Again...just my opinions and others are free to disagree..;)
 
So as far as the Handbook goes, it is only of use when it agrees with you. Other then that it is just commentary ;) Now I know Los Angeles, up until recently, was really screwed up as far as code administration. They used to have more amendments then any other county in the state. So if you have a plan checker that has been there for a while you will have the "I think it should be this way" attitude with them. Have you been down there recently, what did they say?
My guess, "hospital grade required by them".
 
FWIW, I have a Formal Interpretation from the NFPA which states;

"There is no requirement for hospital grade receptacles to be installed in a dentist office, unless there is a patient bed location used in this particular dental practice." 2008 NEC
 
elohr46 said:
FWIW, I have a Formal Interpretation from the NFPA which states;

"There is no requirement for hospital grade receptacles to be installed in a dentist office, unless there is a patient bed location used in this particular dental practice." 2008 NEC
Click to expand...

Could you maybe post a link or copy of the formal interpretation?

It is my understanding that formal interpretations are very rare from NFPA.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
Could you maybe post a link or copy of the formal interpretation?

It is my understanding that formal interpretations are very rare from NFPA.

Chris
Click to expand...

I have a sneaking suspicion that you already know this;)... but I assume that he/she may have a "staff opinion" from NFPA. According to NFPA's web-site there has only been one FI issued and it was for article 410 (dealing with the 2008 NEC).

Pete
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top