hot tub bond

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finster1

Member
Location
New Jersey
I am pulling a permit for a hot tub and the electrical dept left me a message asking what the hot tub will be set on, stating that it was important to remember if it was concrete that Iwould have to take care of the bonding. The homeowner poured his own slab before calling me and he said he didn't use any rebar or metal in the pour. Any thoughts on this and what I should tell the ahj when I call them back??? Also I am feeding this with a new sub in the basement can I use 3phase ser or is it the same as for pools with the ground being insulated...
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
finster1 said:
The homeowner poured his own slab before calling me and he said he didn't use any rebar or metal in the pour.


That might be a problem....essentially that's a footing and would have required a permit.
 

rcarroll

Senior Member
celtic said:
That might be a problem....essentially that's a footing and would have required a permit.
I wouldn't call a slab a footing & in my town a permit wouldn't be required unless it was over 30" high. None the less, an equipotential bonding grid would be required & the install would have to comply with parts 1 & 2 in 680. SER wouldn't be allowed. JMHO
 

Bea

Senior Member
rcarroll said:
SER wouldn't be allowed. JMHO

NEC 680.42(C) Would allow SE on the interior of a dwelling or a building associated with to equipment disconnet on the structure but not from disconnect to tub
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
rcarroll said:
None the less, an equipotential bonding grid would be required & the install would have to comply with parts 1 & 2 in 680.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Part IV of ART. 680 only has to comply with the provisions of Part 1 and Part IV...
 

bkubat1

Member
Spa Bonding

Spa Bonding

I Need Elaboration On 680-42b Exception

Q: Can A Common Frame Be Plastic/wood
Q: Is Metal To Metal Refering Only To Equipment In The Tub & Frame
Or Must It Be A Metal Frame
Q: Is This Bond Just For Inside The Spa & Other Items Around It
To Create Its Own Equipotential Plane, Or Must It Be Bonded
Back To Its Disconnect, Or The Service
 

lainspector

Member
Location
Ohio
Hot Tub Bonding

Hot Tub Bonding

I feel finster1 dilemma. I am writing our pool policy for 2008 to reflect the changes (bldg and elect code). Trying to decipher this hot tub bonding to a non-existent equipotential grid and why we are requiring homeowners to install one. Reading along 680.26(B)(1)...vinyl... and fiberglass... shall be considered...nonconductive materials. 680.26(B)(2)... for nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points shall not be required. 680.2(A)The... to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area. I know if you go by definition a spa or hot tub is a pool. A self-contained pool with all its equipment inside this wooden shell and all its electrical equipment is grounded and bonded together. Not to mention that bottom of such shell is either made of wood or fiberglass. Not even touching the concrete base that it sits on. What about 680.42...shall comply with I and II of 680 except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B). Does 680.26 cancels our 680.42(B) or viceversa? Thanks everyone.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
680.42 (b) modifies the bonding found in 680.26 because the equipment that is required to be bonded is through the metal to metal mounting on a common frame , if this hot tub is on a wooden deck there would be no equi grid required, If it is on a paved surface there would need to be a grid bonded to the common metal frame and other items if applicable
 

M. D.

Senior Member
If the concrete in the O.P. does not extend beyond the footprint of the hot tub and it constructed of plastic/fiberglass/or other non conductive material, there is no need for a grid under it. If the concrete does extend out ,.... grid required under that portion up to 3' or a conrete saw is required to cut it off :smile:

Reference: 680.26 TIA 05-2 (NFPA 70) (SC 05-7-15)/Log No. 821) Pursuant to Section 5 of the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects, the National Fire Protection Association has issued the following Tentative Interim Amendment to NFPA 70, National Electrical Code?, 2005 edition. The TIA was processed by the National Electrical Code? Committee, and was issued by the Standards Council on July 29, 2005, with an effective date of August 18, 2005. A Tentative Interim Amendment is tentative because it has not been processed through the entire standards-making procedures. It is interim because it is effective only between editions of the standard. A TIA automatically becomes a proposal of the proponent for the next edition of the standard; as such, it then is subject to all of the procedures of the standards-making process.

1. Revise 680.26 (C) & 680.26 (C)(1) as follows: (C) Equipotential Bonding Grid. The parts specified in 680.26(B) shall be connected to an equipotential bonding grid with a solid copper conductor, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG or rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified corrosion-resistant metal conduit. Connection shall be made by exothermic welding or by listed pressure connectors or clamps that are labeled as being suitable for the purpose and are of stainless steel, brass, copper, or copper alloy. The equipotential bonding grid shall conform to the contours of the pool and shall extend within or under paved walking surfaces for 1 m (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of the pool and shall be permitted to be any of the following: Exception: The equipotential bonding grid shall not be required to be installed under the bottom of or vertically along the walls of vinyl lined polymer wall, fiberglass composite, or other pools constructed of nonconductive materials. Any metal parts of the pool, including metal structural supports, shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B). For the purposes of this section, poured concrete, pneumatically applied (sprayed) concrete, and concrete block, with painted or plastered coatings, shall be considered conductive material. (1) Structural Reinforcing Steel. The structural reinforcing steel of a concrete pool or deck where the reinforcing rods are bonded together by the usual steel tie wires or the equivalent. Where deck reinforcing steel is not an integral part of the pool, the deck reinforcing steel shall be bonded to other parts of the bonding grid using a minimum 8 AWG solid copper conductor. Connection shall be per 680.26(D).

Copyright ? 2005 All Rights Reserved NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION
 

M. D.

Senior Member
finster1 said:
I am feeding this with a new sub in the basement can I use 3phase ser or is it the same as for pools with the ground being insulated...

Same as with pools the feeder would need to comply with 680.25
 
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