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hot tub GFCI trips

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pecoman

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I installed a Siemens 2 pole 50 Amp GFCI breaker in a main residential panel. I connected the breaker neutral pigtail to the neutral bar, which is also tied in as a grounding bar. This panel is the first means of disconnect(main breaker, 200 Amp). From here, I ran 2-#6 & 1-#10 THHN conductors(2 hot/1 ground, all insulated)to an outdoor 60 Amp non-fused disconnect. From the disconnect, I continued to the hot tub, all in 3/4" PVCEC Schedule 40. The tub unit is an old 220 volt system with no neutral connection in the control panel. The panel skematic & the wiring itself contain black, red, white & green conductors. There are also lights & a device that
looks like a small transformer. There are no signs of a neutral wire on the terminal block. The developed length from the GFCI breaker to the tub is aprox. 50'. Why does the GFCI breaker always trip. It acts like a ground to neutral tripping. Other electricians have had this same problem, but no one can say why.
 
Re: hot tub GFCI trips

The panel skematic & the wiring itself contain black, red, white & green conductors
Click to expand...
I'm very confused as in the first part of your question you said there is no neutral connection but in the this statment above you say that there is a white wire? If there is a white wire then there is 120 volt loads if there is 120 volt loads then you have to have a neutral connection as this load will return through the ground wire or go unballanced and damage 120 volt componits. If it returns through the grounding conductor it will act just like a ground fault and trip the GFCI breaker. You must run 4-wires to a hot tub that has 120 volt loads the neutral and only the neutral should be connected to the GFCI. and you must have a two-pole GFCI that has the neutral terminal to connect the load neutral to it. DO NOT CONNECT A GROUNDING CONDUCTOR TO A TWO-POLE GFCI BREAKER NEUTRAL CONNECTION As this will defeat the GFCI protection and/or cause the GFCI to premature trip when the frame of the tub contacts the earth or water pipes.
 
Re: hot tub GFCI trips

After reading your post again I see where you said there is a small transformer If this transformer is used to supply 120 volts for lighting and control power then no neutral is required But as I said before you must connect the grounding conductor to the grounding/neutral bar in the panel not to the neutral connection on the breaker. I would double check that this tub does not need a neutral.
Also check to see if anyone rewired this tub (bonded the neutral and grounding together) so only a three wire connection could be used. (THIS WOULD NOT BE CODE COMPLIANT) I ran into one of these and had to return the wiring to factory condition as per the wiring diagram. And yes I consulted with the manufacture to make sure it would comply with there UL listing. they sent there own tech out to make sure it would. And UL just treated like any repair of the equipment as long as the manufacture was involved.

[ May 27, 2004, 02:39 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
Re: hot tub GFCI trips

Hurk I am cornfused now. If there is no neutral connection at the load then what good would it do to have the neutral connected to the outgoing loadneutral wire if it is not even connected on the load side at the tub?
 
Re: hot tub GFCI trips

A tech came out to the installation & checked the unit. There was something wrong with the grounding of the blower unit. That's what he said. Anyhow, when that was corrected, the unit worked fine without the GFCI tripping.
 
Re: hot tub GFCI trips

I am amazed at how often we think a protective device has failed rather than it is simply doing it's job.
 
Re: hot tub GFCI trips

Does anybody know where I can get detailed information &/or drawings of exactly how double pole & single pole GFCI breakers work. Another question. Can you use a GFCI recep on a circuit protected with an arc fault breaker? Why or why not? Application: out door recep tied into bedroom cicuit on new construction.
 
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