jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
How close can i have a fixed indoor hot tub to a sub panel ?I know the panel needs 36 inches but how close can the tub be ?
Hot tub near panel
- Thread starter jimwalker
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rcarroll
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: Hot tub near panel
I'm going to say right next to it if you have 36" in front & 30" clearance to the side of the panel. Don't forget your bonding requirements
I'm going to say right next to it if you have 36" in front & 30" clearance to the side of the panel. Don't forget your bonding requirements
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub near panel
The tub is fiberglass and tile around it.No metal anywhere.Situation is i am changing out my panel and would rather it face the sun room than the way it is now facing dining room.I have read 680 and find that the receptacles can be no closer than 5 ft but see no ruling on panels.Did i miss anything
The tub is fiberglass and tile around it.No metal anywhere.Situation is i am changing out my panel and would rather it face the sun room than the way it is now facing dining room.I have read 680 and find that the receptacles can be no closer than 5 ft but see no ruling on panels.Did i miss anything
rcarroll
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: Hot tub near panel
But then again, 680.22(C) may make the disrtance 5' or separate by a wall or permanent barrier
But then again, 680.22(C) may make the disrtance 5' or separate by a wall or permanent barrier
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub near panel
680.22 c is under II permanently installed pools.
680.43 does say i must comply with parts I and II
But i dont see a rule to stop it for a tub.I know we would think it must violate something ,but what ?
680.22 c is under II permanently installed pools.
680.43 does say i must comply with parts I and II
But i dont see a rule to stop it for a tub.I know we would think it must violate something ,but what ?
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Hot tub near panel
Jim
Do you mean bathtub? ... hottub?
I think that rcarroll has it right.
Jim
Do you mean bathtub? ... hottub?
I think that rcarroll has it right.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub near panel
It is a 6 people hot tub with external blower,heater,and pump.The only hazard i could see is if someone tried to turn a breaker on or off while in the tub.It has a door and if needed i can install a lock.I will have 40 inches by well over 30 inches wide.Panel is a cutler hammer 40 circuit with 200 main.It lends itself to an east fix to prevent generator breaker from being on if main breaker is on.Will try to take picture after i finish it.It is my own house but still want it to be code compliant.
It is a 6 people hot tub with external blower,heater,and pump.The only hazard i could see is if someone tried to turn a breaker on or off while in the tub.It has a door and if needed i can install a lock.I will have 40 inches by well over 30 inches wide.Panel is a cutler hammer 40 circuit with 200 main.It lends itself to an east fix to prevent generator breaker from being on if main breaker is on.Will try to take picture after i finish it.It is my own house but still want it to be code compliant.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub near panel
(C) Switching Devices. Switching devices shall be located at least 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier. Alternatively, a switch that is listed as being acceptable for use within 1.5 m (5 ft) shall be permitted.
can a panel be called a switching device ?
note this is not a pool
[ May 12, 2005, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
(C) Switching Devices. Switching devices shall be located at least 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier. Alternatively, a switch that is listed as being acceptable for use within 1.5 m (5 ft) shall be permitted.
can a panel be called a switching device ?
note this is not a pool
[ May 12, 2005, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Hot tub near panel
Jim
Maybe not a "panel"... but have you ever "switched" a circuit breaker on/off?
Jim
Maybe not a "panel"... but have you ever "switched" a circuit breaker on/off?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub near panel
yes and i have thought about it as such.Keep in mind that code was in referance to pools not hot tubs.Do you feel this is a dangerious situation ? Any suggestions to make it bit more safe ?
yes and i have thought about it as such.Keep in mind that code was in referance to pools not hot tubs.Do you feel this is a dangerious situation ? Any suggestions to make it bit more safe ?
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Hot tub near panel
I vote 5 ftmin.
I vote 5 ftmin.
Re: Hot tub near panel
Maybe when they wrote article 680.22 (C) the thoughts of a "person standing in the water and reaching " or perhaps "splashing of water" had some reason behind the 5ft minimum requirement .......
well to apply it towards your situation maybe look at article 680 and it says "swimming pools, fountains, and SIMILAR INSTALLATIONS.
My "guess" on the subject after this would be the 5ft. limitation does apply to your case....what do you think now ??
Maybe when they wrote article 680.22 (C) the thoughts of a "person standing in the water and reaching " or perhaps "splashing of water" had some reason behind the 5ft minimum requirement .......
well to apply it towards your situation maybe look at article 680 and it says "swimming pools, fountains, and SIMILAR INSTALLATIONS.
My "guess" on the subject after this would be the 5ft. limitation does apply to your case....what do you think now ??
Re: Hot tub near panel
jimwalker,
FYI, 2005 handbook, 680.43(C)WALL SWITCHES and it states 5ft. then in the explanatory area it goes on to say "recpts.,wall switches,and electrical devices and controls not associated with a spa or hot tub-----" same requirment.
frank
jimwalker,
FYI, 2005 handbook, 680.43(C)WALL SWITCHES and it states 5ft. then in the explanatory area it goes on to say "recpts.,wall switches,and electrical devices and controls not associated with a spa or hot tub-----" same requirment.
frank
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub near panel
"well to apply it towards your situation maybe look at article 680 and it says "swimming pools, fountains, and SIMILAR INSTALLATIONS."
That is just the general sumation of article 680.We must then go to the section involved.Note they did seperate pool requirments from spa requirements,they are not the same.It would permit a gfci receptacle for a spa as close as 5 feet but pools are 10 feet.
We also can not use the hand book as code as it is a private opinion only.
This is the only practicle place for this panel as the feeders are already installed from the old panel.
What i am looking at is if i call inspection what code number could he site? The only close one is 680.43 c and it does not say panel it says wall switches.This panel has a door that must be opened to reach a breaker.I do admit a breaker is close to being a switch,but it is not a switch as per this article.What i am saying is i think they overlooked this possibility like they do many others.Years ago we could have put a rain tight panel in a shower.
"well to apply it towards your situation maybe look at article 680 and it says "swimming pools, fountains, and SIMILAR INSTALLATIONS."
That is just the general sumation of article 680.We must then go to the section involved.Note they did seperate pool requirments from spa requirements,they are not the same.It would permit a gfci receptacle for a spa as close as 5 feet but pools are 10 feet.
We also can not use the hand book as code as it is a private opinion only.
This is the only practicle place for this panel as the feeders are already installed from the old panel.
What i am looking at is if i call inspection what code number could he site? The only close one is 680.43 c and it does not say panel it says wall switches.This panel has a door that must be opened to reach a breaker.I do admit a breaker is close to being a switch,but it is not a switch as per this article.What i am saying is i think they overlooked this possibility like they do many others.Years ago we could have put a rain tight panel in a shower.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub near panel
drg, i thank you and all others for input.I was sure that someone could find a code to say i can't do this.I asked at work and one man seemed to think 110 might be violated because of being within 6 feet of water.I can't find anything.If you go back many code changes you could have put a WP outlet in your bath tub.The code misses things.Would seem if they had meant to include a panel it would have said receptacles,switches and electrical equipment ,but it didn't.The only reason i am doing it this way is because the panel will look ugly in my dining room.I have a picture to hang over it if it is in the sun room.Not really sure if that changes anything or if a door lock changes anything.The tub will be getting relocated in near future anyways.I still have till 10 am sat to be talked out of it.Any others care to take a stab it ?
drg, i thank you and all others for input.I was sure that someone could find a code to say i can't do this.I asked at work and one man seemed to think 110 might be violated because of being within 6 feet of water.I can't find anything.If you go back many code changes you could have put a WP outlet in your bath tub.The code misses things.Would seem if they had meant to include a panel it would have said receptacles,switches and electrical equipment ,but it didn't.The only reason i am doing it this way is because the panel will look ugly in my dining room.I have a picture to hang over it if it is in the sun room.Not really sure if that changes anything or if a door lock changes anything.The tub will be getting relocated in near future anyways.I still have till 10 am sat to be talked out of it.Any others care to take a stab it ?
Re: Hot tub near panel
Jimwalker,
I'm up for another try. Article680 IV."Hot Tubs" 680.43(C) Switches.
Definition: Switch.General-Use. "A switch intended for use in general distribution and branch circuits. It is rated in amperes,and is capable of interrupting its rated current at its rated voltage."
How do you like the way this is worded?
frank
Jimwalker,
I'm up for another try. Article680 IV."Hot Tubs" 680.43(C) Switches.
Definition: Switch.General-Use. "A switch intended for use in general distribution and branch circuits. It is rated in amperes,and is capable of interrupting its rated current at its rated voltage."
How do you like the way this is worded?
frank
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub near panel
Circuit Breaker. A device designed to open and close a circuit by nonautomatic means and to open the circuit automatically on a predetermined overcurrent without damage to itself when properly applied within its rating.
I do admit that a breaker can also be a switch.
After much thought i found a better solution.Panel staying in dining room but moved over about 6 inches and raised 4 inches.Oil painting of the wife lighthouse collection will cover it.Also thinking this is better kept in main house as per part of the reason it is being changed is to add the back up generator.It will need to be accesable to turn on selective loads.Also is the factor that sunroom is full of windows and has a pan roof that will not hold up if we get a real hurricane hit.Thanks for all the help guys.Perhaps a proposal would be a good idea.They should think this over as it would be a hard to site violation if indeed it is a hazard.Happy ending panel can stay and less work and wife happy.And one more #$%^)(*^$^&* GE panel out of service.Anyone need a boat anchor ?
Circuit Breaker. A device designed to open and close a circuit by nonautomatic means and to open the circuit automatically on a predetermined overcurrent without damage to itself when properly applied within its rating.
I do admit that a breaker can also be a switch.
After much thought i found a better solution.Panel staying in dining room but moved over about 6 inches and raised 4 inches.Oil painting of the wife lighthouse collection will cover it.Also thinking this is better kept in main house as per part of the reason it is being changed is to add the back up generator.It will need to be accesable to turn on selective loads.Also is the factor that sunroom is full of windows and has a pan roof that will not hold up if we get a real hurricane hit.Thanks for all the help guys.Perhaps a proposal would be a good idea.They should think this over as it would be a hard to site violation if indeed it is a hazard.Happy ending panel can stay and less work and wife happy.And one more #$%^)(*^$^&* GE panel out of service.Anyone need a boat anchor ?
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