Hot Tub - underground wiring

[Greg Swartz]

So, today, we had an inspection for a hot tub.

We ran URD in a trench from the house panel to the hot tub disconnect. The inspector failed it saying that the hot tub is like a pool, and the wiring needs to be in conduit.

I'm a bit confused. I can't seem to understand that the wiring from the house to the disconnect needs to be in conduit. We did this back in August, without conduit, in URD, and had no trouble. All inspections passed with flying colors.

From the disconnect to the hot tub, I can see using conduit, but from the house to the disconnect, I don't...

Can I get some ideas here?

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So, today, we had an inspection for a hot tub.

We ran URD in a trench from the house panel to the hot tub disconnect. The inspector failed it saying that the hot tub is like a pool, and the wiring needs to be in conduit.

I'm a bit confused. I can't seem to understand that the wiring from the house to the disconnect needs to be in conduit. We did this back in August, without conduit, in URD, and had no trouble. All inspections passed with flying colors.

From the disconnect to the hot tub, I can see using conduit, but from the house to the disconnect, I don't...

Can I get some ideas here?

Thanks,
Greg

Art. 680.42 directs you to parts I and II. Then read art. 680.21(A)(1)

 

[stickboy1375]

Uh-Oh... good luck with that one.

 

[Greg Swartz]

Art. 680.42 directs you to parts I and II. Then read art. 680.21(A)(1)

680.21 Motors.​

(A) Wiring Methods.

The wiring to a pool motor shall

comply with (A)(1) unless modified for specific circumstances
by (A)(2), (A)(3), (A)(4), or (A)(5).
​

​

(1) General. ​

​

The branch circuits for pool-associated motors

shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate
metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, reinforced
thermosetting resin conduit, or Type MC cable listed for the
location. Other wiring methods and materials shall be permitted
in specific locations or applications as covered in
this section. Any wiring method employed shall contain an
insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in​

accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG
​

I agree. So, wouldn't that mean from the disconnect of the hot tub to the hot tub itself, not from the house to the disconnect?
Wouldn't the wire before the hot tub disconnect be considered a branch to a sub-panel? (or something like that?)
​

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Greg I thought you used urd from the panel to the disco-- I believe that is an outdoor installation-- at least I hope so.

It just says outdoor installation part 680.42(C) talks about interior to the outdoors.

 

[stickboy1375]

Check out 680.25

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Check out 680.25

Thanks stickboy that is a more pertinent article although one could consider that a branch circuit.

 

[Greg Swartz]

Check out 680.25

Unfortunately, I think that covers it.
Thanks

No, really, I'm not pissed at you, I just do not see the necessity of having such a requirement. I guess I'm glad that we didn't get nailed on the job earlier this year!

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Greg Swartz]

We passed...

We passed...

Well, we installed conduit, and the inspector passed it.

Thanks everyone.

(I still don't think we should have had to do it! - Evidence or not)

Greg

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well, we installed conduit, and the inspector passed it.

Thanks everyone.

(I still don't think we should have had to do it! - Evidence or not)

Greg

Greg I believe the reason for the conduit is to ensure that the EGC is protected to avoid loss of the ground to the hot tub.

Curious did you install a bonding grid around the tub?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

The question about the disconnect that I have not seen asked is;
Is the disconnect fused or nonfused?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Wouldn't the wire before the hot tub disconnect be considered a branch to a sub-panel? (or something like that?)
[/left]

Sub-panels have overcurrent devices.
Sub-panels are supplied with feeders, not branch circuits.

 

[growler]

I guess I'm glad that we didn't get nailed on the job earlier this year!

If you had gotten caught the first time then you would have known about it for this job.:smile::smile:

 

[Greg Swartz]

Greg I believe the reason for the conduit is to ensure that the EGC is protected to avoid loss of the ground to the hot tub.

Curious did you install a bonding grid around the tub?

I guess that does make some sense. No we did not install a bonding grid. However, we did drive a ground rod at the disconnect. #6 bare copper to it.

The question about the disconnect that I have not seen asked is;
Is the disconnect fused or nonfused?

The disconnect is a factory supplied fused (read: circuit breakers) disconnect. 1 - 30A 2 pole GFCI, and 1 - 20A 2 pole GFCI

Sub-panels have overcurrent devices.
Sub-panels are supplied with feeders, not branch circuits.

Noted. Sorry for the poor terminology.

If you had gotten caught the first time then you would have known about it for this job.:smile::smile:

Shaddup! That's enough out of you! :wink:



Here's the kicker for the inspection today: Another electrical inspector came to inspect the job. He said... "I think you can use UF, on this without conduit."
At which point my on site Service Electrician corrected said inspector, and brought him to the "BOOK"

It really bugs me. I should not be pissed because I had to do something correctly, but had today's inspector looked at it... he would have "Ok'ed" it.

There is little "uniformity" between inspectors.

We passed, and that's all that matters.
Thank you everyone for your input.
Greg

 

[stickboy1375]

I guess that does make some sense. No we did not install a bonding grid. However, we did drive a ground rod at the disconnect. #6 bare copper to it.

What the heck is that going to do? :-?

Edit, never mind... not sure if this hot tub panel is remote or not.