hot tub wiring

[Billy D]

I was wondering if someone could help me with this question.
In article 680.42 Outdoor Spa Installations talks about the type of wiring you can you use to wire the hotub. The way I interpit it is that you can use romex cable, with unisulated grounding conductor, from the branch circuit device to your outdoor disconnect. Then from your outdoor disconnect to the tub control panel you can use UF cable, still with unisulated grounding conductor. 680.42.2(c) states that the 12 AWG grounding conductor insulated or enclosed conductor with in the outer sheath of the wiring method shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads. I t seems to me they are talking about the wiring on the outside.

Thank You

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Not correct. If the wire is run in the interior of a single family dwelling then you may use chapter 3 wiring methods-- nm cable included. However from the disconnect to the tub that is located outdoors you must use an insulated copper conductor and comply with 680.21(A)(1)

 

[Sierrasparky]

ok so if this is multi family, actually a duplex ( two individual dewlling with a shared common wall) not sharing the hot tub can you still use NM inside the dwelling to the disconnect.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

ok so if this is multi family, actually a duplex ( two individual dewlling with a shared common wall) not sharing the hot tub can you still use NM inside the dwelling to the disconnect.

In my opinion a duplex is not a multifamily dwelling as they are two separate dwellings that are attached. So yes you can use NM on the interior. Now be careful some hot tubs specific state full sized egc-- this cannot be done with nm.

 

[Sierrasparky]

my confusion has been reading this from the definitions of the 2008 code.

Dwelling, One-Family.​

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A building that consists solely ofone dwelling unit
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Dwelling, Two-Family.​

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A building that consists solely of two dwelling units.​

Dwelling, Multifamily.​

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A building that contains three ormore dwelling units.​

Dwelling Unit.​

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A single unit, providing complete andindependent living facilities for one or more persons,including permanent provisions for living, sleeping,​

cooking, and sanitation

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I understand your confusion. I am not sure I could explain it as it is confusing to me also. If the building had a separate meter for common area lighting etc then I see that as a multi family or two family setup.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I understand your confusion. I am not sure I could explain it as it is confusing to me also. If the building had a separate meter for common area lighting etc then I see that as a multi family or two family setup.

Well I am sure glad I am not the only one confused about this issue.

 

[Billy D]

I am still confused on the wording in article 680-42-(2) c , Interior wiring to Outdoor installations, where it says that the wiring methods in chapter 3 are exceptable
It states "shal be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think all that is saying is the interior wiring can be chapter 3 to a spa for the motor, etc. If a separate light is installed then the rules change. I have heard of some inspector state if the tub has a light then you cannot use Chapter 3 wiring. I think it is a bit confusing but I am certain you cannot use UF to the spa outdoors.

 

[Billy D]

The spa is all self contained with lights and controls. Can you explain the safety difference between the uncovered or uninsulated grounding conductor vs the bare or uncovered grounding conductor in enclosed sheath cable. I ran a piece of UF cable from the disconnect to the spa and I was told that this is not code compliant because the grounding conductor has to be covered. I thought under spas, 680-42. (2)C it allowed me to because of a single family home.

 

[elohr46]

I am still confused on the wording in article 680-42-(2) c , Interior wiring to Outdoor installations, where it says that the wiring methods in chapter 3 are exceptable
It states "shal be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub.

680.42.(C) sure seems to allow UF wiring methods, you might want to run this by the AHJ first.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I cannot explain why you need an insulated ground esp. if it is in uf however uf is not protected and is not a wiring method in 680.21.

Part II is the main info for hot tubs and spas and it gets modified by Part IV. 680.42 (C) title is interior wiring to an outdoor installation. This means once the wire is considered outdoors you must use 680.42. This says parts I and II. I think it is very clear in that respect.

 

[elohr46]

I cannot explain why you need an insulated ground esp. if it is in uf however uf is not protected and is not a wiring method in 680.21.

Part II is the main info for hot tubs and spas and it gets modified by Part IV. 680.42 (C) title is interior wiring to an outdoor installation. This means once the wire is considered outdoors you must use 680.42. This says parts I and II. I think it is very clear in that respect.

Sorry, I'm not seeing anything in 680.42(C) that says "once you get outdoors". In fact is says "shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating and control loads". That appears to modify the general requirements of 680.21

 

[defears]

In my opinion a duplex is not a multifamily dwelling as they are two separate dwellings that are attached. So yes you can use NM on the interior. Now be careful some hot tubs specific state full sized egc-- this cannot be done with nm.

This is why I always now use 1" PVC for all hot tubs. Not to mention the Square D QO GFCI Breaker also now listed in the instructions.:rant:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sorry, I'm not seeing anything in 680.42(C) that says "once you get outdoors". In fact is says "shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating and control loads". That appears to modify the general requirements of 680.21

Well, do what you must. I don't know how to convince you otherwise. To me it is clear.

 

[John120/240]

my confusion has been reading this from the definitions of the 2008 code.

Dwelling, One-Family.​

​

​

​

A building that consists solely ofone dwelling unit
.​

Dwelling, Two-Family.​

​

​

​

A building that consists solely of two dwelling units.​

Dwelling, Multifamily.​

​

​

​

A building that contains three ormore dwelling units.​

Dwelling Unit.​

​

​

​

A single unit, providing complete andindependent living facilities for one or more persons,including permanent provisions for living, sleeping,​

cooking, and sanitation

Would a fire wall between two units of a duplex with a common electric service change the

definitions of multi family vs single family ?

 

[Sierrasparky]

Would a fire wall between two units of a duplex with a common electric service change the

definitions of multi family vs single family ?

Don't know still in a state of confusion.:?:happyyes::happysad:hmy::rant::happyno:

 

[Billy D]

I agree that from now on I too will be usung flex with thwn on the outside.
The AHJ would not allow the UF and said it was a safety concern and I asked him to explain and he just said that is the way I read it.