HOT TUB

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jap

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The Satellite Installers drove a ground rod and ran a #10 ground wire from it exposed up the side of the house and over the roof to the dish on the roof.

This ground rod is withing about 10' of where the owner intends on placing thier new Hot Tub.

They intend on building a Treated Deck out of 2x6's 10x10 for the hot tub to sit on which i feel will require an EPB around the perimeter of the deck which will probably be a #8 bare copper around the perimeter and brought to the lug on the Pump Motor.

My question is does the EPB need to connect to the Satellite Ground Rod also or just to the #8 Lug on the Pump Motor?
Does the EPB connect to the Equipment Grounding Conductor brought to the Unit with the 50a GFI Circuit or are they to be kept seperate?
 
1. Is the satellite ground rod also connected to the building grounding electrode system? It is required to connect the 2 systems together.

2. If the ground rod or GEC is more than 5' from the edge of the hot tub they need not be bonded to the Equipotential grid.

3. The equipotential grid should be connected to the bonding lug on the pump motor which will also be bonded to the equipment grounding conductor of the branch circuit supplying the hot tub.

Chris
 
The Satellite Ground rod is not bonded to anything else its just drove into the dirt with the #10 going up to the satellite.
 
The Salesman indicated the tub required #6 for all conductors including the equipment grounding conductor for the 50a GFI Feed or it would void all warranties.

That pretty much tells me no Romex at all.

I wished the NEC and the Hot Tub people could get together on this.

To me, bigger is not always better.

At some point,in my mind,trying to terminate the larger conductors on neutral bars and ground bars that are full or require an "Add a Lug" creates more of an electrical hazard than using the correct size equipment grounding conductor of sufficient size.
 
jap said:
The Satellite Ground rod is not bonded to anything else its just drove into the dirt with the #10 going up to the satellite.
Click to expand...

It that case, the customer has a problem as that is a violation of 810.21(F). Typical install violation by satellite installers, telco and cable are bad about this also.

Here is a link that describes the satellite bonding/grounding requirements in the first Q&A.

http://ecmweb.com/qampa/code-quandaries-7
 
jap said:
The Salesman indicated the tub required #6 for all conductors including the equipment grounding conductor for the 50a GFI Feed or it would void all warranties.

That pretty much tells me no Romex at all.
Click to expand...

Most of Article 680 applications require an insulated EGC disallowing Romex/NM as a wiring method.

As to the #6 EGC for a 50A circuit, you and Dennis can fight the manufactures on that one. It is big pet peeve of his.
 
jap said:
The Salesman indicated the tub required #6 for all conductors including the equipment grounding conductor for the 50a GFI Feed or it would void all warranties.

That pretty much tells me no Romex at all.

I wished the NEC and the Hot Tub people could get together on this.

To me, bigger is not always better.

At some point,in my mind,trying to terminate the larger conductors on neutral bars and ground bars that are full or require an "Add a Lug" creates more of an electrical hazard than using the correct size equipment grounding conductor of sufficient size.
Click to expand...

jumper said:
Most of Article 680 applications require an insulated EGC disallowing Romex/NM as a wiring method.

As to the #6 EGC for a 50A circuit, you and Dennis can fight the manufactures on that one. It is big pet peeve of his.
Click to expand...

The manufacturers instructions are likely only going to apply to the "branch circuit" which in most cases ends at a "spa panel" installed near the spa. The feeder to this panel is not covered in their instructions.

As far as using NM cable for the feeder portion of the supply, I think it usually is acceptable in dwellings, I would need to do some reading to verify though. It of course can not be used in any outdoor portions of the feeder.

I quickly looked at 680 parts I and IV and did not see any restrictions of types of wiring methods allowed, I know there are restrictions in part II but those should not apply to a spa.
 
i had every intention of installing (4) #8's from the service panel out to the 50a GFI SPA Panel in conduit and then on to the Tub. But not #6. The sizing between #8 and #6 feeder is the tipping point for me.

With #8's I can do it all in 3/4 with #6 I use 1" and the price and everything changes.

Even if I was to use 6/3 w/g romex on the inside and convert before i went outside (Which is allowed) I'd still be connecting a #6 EGC from the tub to a #10 bare ground in the 6/3 romex.

I just dont understand the tub requiring an equipment Grounding Conductor to be larger than the feeder conductor.
 
The only reason I put the GFI Breaker / Disconnect within site of the hot tub is for troubleshooting purposes.

Its much easier to troubleshoot a neusance trip with it there than having to walk all the way back to the service panel to reset it

Although a nonfused disconnect would suffice at the tub location, if you put the GFI in the Panel then by rights your dealing with a branch circuit the whole way and you'd have to pull a full sized equipment ground all the way from the panel to the tub.

Maybe just one more good reason to put the GFI/Disconnect at the Tub location.
 
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