Hot tub
- Thread starter macdaiwa
- Start date
- Status
wayne123
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Hot tub
Unless the cable is uf, then it must be protected from weather. Why not run conduit the length of the run ? You must have a disconnect within sight of the hot tub but not within 5 ft. of the edge of it.Don't forget it must be GFCI protected also. I usually have the GFCI protection in the disconnect.
Unless the cable is uf, then it must be protected from weather. Why not run conduit the length of the run ? You must have a disconnect within sight of the hot tub but not within 5 ft. of the edge of it.Don't forget it must be GFCI protected also. I usually have the GFCI protection in the disconnect.
chris68
Member
- Location
- Denver, CO
Re: Hot tub
Hey Wayne123...do the disonnects with GFCI protection save any money?
Hey Wayne123...do the disonnects with GFCI protection save any money?
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Hot tub
Emergency switches are not required for single-family dwellings, however you are still required to meet the requirements of Part I of the Article which requires a maintenance disconnect for all utilization equipment assoicated with the spa.
See sections 680.41, 680.40, and 680.12.
Emergency switches are not required for single-family dwellings, however you are still required to meet the requirements of Part I of the Article which requires a maintenance disconnect for all utilization equipment assoicated with the spa.
See sections 680.41, 680.40, and 680.12.
wayne123
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Hot tub
Chris, most of the hot tubs usually come with a GFCI disc.I think they are comparable with a GFCI breaker plus it is more convinient to have it by near the tub for service reasons. Mac what code are you refering to?
Chris, most of the hot tubs usually come with a GFCI disc.I think they are comparable with a GFCI breaker plus it is more convinient to have it by near the tub for service reasons. Mac what code are you refering to?
chris68
Member
- Location
- Denver, CO
Re: Hot tub
I've hooked up several hot tubs, all Cal Spas...didn't include a disconnect means.
Interestingly enough all have spec'd #6AWG conductor, 250.122 says #10 ground, but Cal Spas says you should use #6, even for the ground. http://www.calspas.com/spas/owners_manual/06.html
680.12 Tells us to have a disconnecting means within sight and accessible. The only way you could use the electric panel as the sole disconnect means is if it's within sight, accessible, and labeled.
Macdaiwa, I have hooked up a couple of older hot tubs with GFCIs integral to the hot tub...both were mid 1990's. Of course neither were in sight becuase they were behind the access door of the hot tub...still requiring a seperate disconnect in my opinion...what do you think?
I agree with Wayne on conduit for the length of the run. Not all electricians can hang conduit though.
Looks like the code requirement everyone misses is having a 15 or 20 amp recepticle between 5-10ft from the inside wall of hot tub.
I've hooked up several hot tubs, all Cal Spas...didn't include a disconnect means.
Interestingly enough all have spec'd #6AWG conductor, 250.122 says #10 ground, but Cal Spas says you should use #6, even for the ground. http://www.calspas.com/spas/owners_manual/06.html
680.12 Tells us to have a disconnecting means within sight and accessible. The only way you could use the electric panel as the sole disconnect means is if it's within sight, accessible, and labeled.
Macdaiwa, I have hooked up a couple of older hot tubs with GFCIs integral to the hot tub...both were mid 1990's. Of course neither were in sight becuase they were behind the access door of the hot tub...still requiring a seperate disconnect in my opinion...what do you think?
I agree with Wayne on conduit for the length of the run. Not all electricians can hang conduit though.
Looks like the code requirement everyone misses is having a 15 or 20 amp recepticle between 5-10ft from the inside wall of hot tub.
chris68
Member
- Location
- Denver, CO
Re: Hot tub
rrrusty, you're right, the 15 or 20 amp recepticle between 5-10ft I am speaking of is a provision on Indoor installations 680.43 A. Sounds like the required 15-20 amp recepticle would be a provision of 680.22 A 3 "10-20ft from inside wall of pool." My most recent installation takes exemption from the very next provision 680.22 A 4...it's less than 10 ft from the exterior of the home (all have been so far), so it looks like the distance is bumped back to 5 ft. Kind of an interesting comparison between inside vs outside hot tub, huh?
What do you think about not being able to see an integral GFCI from behind an access panel? Most access panels on hot tubs are locked with screws, I still put a disconnect within sight of the hot tub.
[ July 10, 2004, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: chris68 ]
rrrusty, you're right, the 15 or 20 amp recepticle between 5-10ft I am speaking of is a provision on Indoor installations 680.43 A. Sounds like the required 15-20 amp recepticle would be a provision of 680.22 A 3 "10-20ft from inside wall of pool." My most recent installation takes exemption from the very next provision 680.22 A 4...it's less than 10 ft from the exterior of the home (all have been so far), so it looks like the distance is bumped back to 5 ft. Kind of an interesting comparison between inside vs outside hot tub, huh?
What do you think about not being able to see an integral GFCI from behind an access panel? Most access panels on hot tubs are locked with screws, I still put a disconnect within sight of the hot tub.
[ July 10, 2004, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: chris68 ]
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Hot tub
For dwelling units (houses
), running UF without it being in a raceway, outside to the Hottub/Spa is a violation. Inside the dwelling to the outside wall, can be any chapter 3 wiring method that is approved. Once you go outside with the wiring, it has to be in one of the four raceways that are designated in 680.25 [with the exception of 680.42 (A)(1)&(2)].
The requirement of 680.12 for a maintenance disconnect does not require the disconnect to be GFCI protected, just the Hottub/Spa has to be protected.
Because the Hottub/Spa is located within 5 feet of the house, does not designate that the yard (space) falls under the 'restricted' space of 680.22(A)(4). So a receptacle for convenience has to still be at least 10 feet, but no more than 20 feet from the edge of the spa, if the yard is not of the 'restricted' size.
Pierre
For dwelling units (houses
), running UF without it being in a raceway, outside to the Hottub/Spa is a violation. Inside the dwelling to the outside wall, can be any chapter 3 wiring method that is approved. Once you go outside with the wiring, it has to be in one of the four raceways that are designated in 680.25 [with the exception of 680.42 (A)(1)&(2)].The requirement of 680.12 for a maintenance disconnect does not require the disconnect to be GFCI protected, just the Hottub/Spa has to be protected.
Because the Hottub/Spa is located within 5 feet of the house, does not designate that the yard (space) falls under the 'restricted' space of 680.22(A)(4). So a receptacle for convenience has to still be at least 10 feet, but no more than 20 feet from the edge of the spa, if the yard is not of the 'restricted' size.
Pierre
george t. everett
Senior Member
- Location
- New York
Re: Hot tub
The AHJ in my area will not allow UF or NM within the dwelling to feed a pool or hot tub with a heater. He says 680.21 only pertains to pool motors not heaters. I don't think that was the intent, but I have to live with it.
The AHJ in my area will not allow UF or NM within the dwelling to feed a pool or hot tub with a heater. He says 680.21 only pertains to pool motors not heaters. I don't think that was the intent, but I have to live with it.
chris68
Member
- Location
- Denver, CO
Re: Hot tub
Pierre, 680.22 a 4 allows a recepticle 5 ft away when the pool is located within 10 ft of a dwelling.
What do you think about not being able to see an integral GFCI from behind an access panel? Most access panels on hot tubs are locked with screws, I still put a disconnect within sight of the hot tub.
I agree that a disconnect isn't required to be a gfci model. My point was several hot tubs have an integral GFCI behind an access panel. The panel in most instances I've seen is held closed via 4-6 screws. Under these conditions it would no longer be visible to a hot tub occupant. When I have encountered this scenario, I hang a separate disconnect within sight of hot tub occupants.
Pierre, 680.22 a 4 allows a recepticle 5 ft away when the pool is located within 10 ft of a dwelling.
What do you think about not being able to see an integral GFCI from behind an access panel? Most access panels on hot tubs are locked with screws, I still put a disconnect within sight of the hot tub.
I agree that a disconnect isn't required to be a gfci model. My point was several hot tubs have an integral GFCI behind an access panel. The panel in most instances I've seen is held closed via 4-6 screws. Under these conditions it would no longer be visible to a hot tub occupant. When I have encountered this scenario, I hang a separate disconnect within sight of hot tub occupants.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Hot tub
Reading 680.22(A)(4) carefully, it says... " Where a pool is within 10 feet of a dwelling and the dimensions of the lot preclude meeting the required clearances..."
This does not just say the pool/spa located within 10 feet of the pool, it also mentions the size of the lot (maybe a back yard).
I agree the disconnect needs to be within sight, as defined in Art 100.
Pierre
Reading 680.22(A)(4) carefully, it says... " Where a pool is within 10 feet of a dwelling and the dimensions of the lot preclude meeting the required clearances..."
This does not just say the pool/spa located within 10 feet of the pool, it also mentions the size of the lot (maybe a back yard).
I agree the disconnect needs to be within sight, as defined in Art 100.
Pierre
chris68
Member
- Location
- Denver, CO
Re: Hot tub
So, do we agree that a recepticle can be located 5 ft from a pool yet?
[ July 11, 2004, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: chris68 ]
So, do we agree that a recepticle can be located 5 ft from a pool yet?
[ July 11, 2004, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: chris68 ]
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Hot tub
Chris68 Read read 680.22(A)(4) It only alows it not closer than 5' when space (including lot space) is closer than 10' to the hot tub but no where does it allow it to be closer than 5'
If there is a outside receptacle that is less than 20' but not closer than 10' and GFCI protected it would meet the requirments for this hot tub you don't have to add another one. But if you have to add one then you must follow 680.22
Look at 680.22(A)(6) this would also not allow a receptacle located in the dwelling to serve as this receptacle ether. But would allow a receptacle down the outside of the house to serve as this receptacle if it is within the 20' foot requirment.
[ July 11, 2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Chris68 Read read 680.22(A)(4) It only alows it not closer than 5' when space (including lot space) is closer than 10' to the hot tub but no where does it allow it to be closer than 5'
If there is a outside receptacle that is less than 20' but not closer than 10' and GFCI protected it would meet the requirments for this hot tub you don't have to add another one. But if you have to add one then you must follow 680.22
Look at 680.22(A)(6) this would also not allow a receptacle located in the dwelling to serve as this receptacle ether. But would allow a receptacle down the outside of the house to serve as this receptacle if it is within the 20' foot requirment.
[ July 11, 2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
- Status