Someone called me today and said he wanted his hot tub hooked up without a GFCI because at his old house it always tripped. He also said that at his old house an electrician removed the GFCI from the hot tub circuit and drove a ground rod beside the hot tub. When I tried to explain to him that he needed the GFCI he said he didn't and asked if I would drive a ground rod like at his old house. I said NO, and tried to explain to him how a GFCI works, but he wasn't interested. Isn't it true that a GFCI doesn't need a ground wire to operate, and that driving the ground rod by the hot tub didn't accomplish anything? What code rules were violated by the last guy who connected the hot tub without a GFCI , and drove that ground rod beside it? One more thing, doesn't the disconnect for a hot tub have to be at least 5' from the inside wall of the hot tub? thank you.
Hot tub
- Thread starter alltech04
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aelectricalman
Senior Member
- Location
- KY
Re: Hot tub
Now is the time to put aside making money, and get out!! Just tell him that your license depends on the fact that you do work that is ethical and of sound judgement. If your cash strapped and have no license and have no ethical standards, sure go for it. Just be sure and don't tell him your real name. Because when the police come looking for you for murder, they won't be able to blame you. Walk away and save prison time!!
*The content of this message is not intended to be taken literally. It is only a joke and does not reflect the views of Alpha Electrical Contractors or those affiliated.
Now is the time to put aside making money, and get out!! Just tell him that your license depends on the fact that you do work that is ethical and of sound judgement. If your cash strapped and have no license and have no ethical standards, sure go for it. Just be sure and don't tell him your real name. Because when the police come looking for you for murder, they won't be able to blame you. Walk away and save prison time!!
*The content of this message is not intended to be taken literally. It is only a joke and does not reflect the views of Alpha Electrical Contractors or those affiliated.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Hot tub
Is the hot tub listed as "GFI protection required"? If not, and it's hard-wired, it's strangely not.
I do find it very odd to drive a ground rod by a hot tub. Does hooting and hurling feces at it help too? Why not pull a proper grounding conductor from the house?
Check out this thread
Is the hot tub listed as "GFI protection required"? If not, and it's hard-wired, it's strangely not.
I do find it very odd to drive a ground rod by a hot tub. Does hooting and hurling feces at it help too?
Why not pull a proper grounding conductor from the house?Check out this thread
aelectricalman
Senior Member
- Location
- KY
Re: Hot tub
If you throw enough I bet it becomes a good insulator. At least when it dries.
[ February 20, 2005, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: aelectricalman ]
This is some funny you know what.Originally posted by georgestolz:
Does hooting and hurling feces at it help too?
If you throw enough I bet it becomes a good insulator. At least when it dries.[ February 20, 2005, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: aelectricalman ]
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Hot tub
I wonder what the conductivity of . . . UH . . . never mind.
I wonder what the conductivity of . . . UH . . . never mind.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Hot tub
Was once required to bon the motor to PVC pipes Stupid but true.
Was once required to bon the motor to PVC pipes
Stupid but true.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Hot tub
Jackcay, welcome to the forum! Did you click on the link in my first post? We had a pretty good discussion on hot tubs a while back.
Jackcay, welcome to the forum! Did you click on the link in my first post? We had a pretty good discussion on hot tubs a while back.
As a caution, the statement I quoted above sounds like you're quoting code, but isn't code. There is no requirement for hard-wired hot-tubs. It's good advice to install a GFI, IMO.
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Hot tub
please excuse me if I can't get back to you on this post .I don't have a lot of time these days.
680.44 Protection.
Except as otherwise provided in this section, the outlet(s) that supplies a self-contained spa or hot tub, a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly, or a field-assembled spa or hot tub shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
(A) Listed Units. If so marked, a listed self-contained unit or listed packaged equipment assembly that includes integral ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for all electrical parts within the unit or assembly (pumps, air blowers, heaters, lights, controls, sanitizer generators, wiring, and so forth) shall be permitted without additional GFCI protection.
(B) Other Units. A field assembled spa or hot tub rated 3 phase or rated over 250 volts or with a heater load of more than 50 amperes shall not require the supply to be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
This doesn?t say the receptacle supplying it says the outlet supplying.
please excuse me if I can't get back to you on this post .I don't have a lot of time these days.
680.44 Protection.
Except as otherwise provided in this section, the outlet(s) that supplies a self-contained spa or hot tub, a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly, or a field-assembled spa or hot tub shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
(A) Listed Units. If so marked, a listed self-contained unit or listed packaged equipment assembly that includes integral ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for all electrical parts within the unit or assembly (pumps, air blowers, heaters, lights, controls, sanitizer generators, wiring, and so forth) shall be permitted without additional GFCI protection.
(B) Other Units. A field assembled spa or hot tub rated 3 phase or rated over 250 volts or with a heater load of more than 50 amperes shall not require the supply to be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
This doesn?t say the receptacle supplying it says the outlet supplying.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Hot tub
But then there is the listed units and field assembled one that pull over 50 amps?
Good point David and the definition of an outlet as per article 100 is:
Would seem to require all hot tub's to be GFCI protected?
But then there is the listed units and field assembled one that pull over 50 amps?
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Hot tub
It is either a receptacle outlet or a lighting outlet. If it is hard wired, you are not required to use a GFCI. If everything was solidly grounded there would be no need for GFCIs. With cord and plug connected equipment, the grounding can not be guaranteed.
It is either a receptacle outlet or a lighting outlet. If it is hard wired, you are not required to use a GFCI. If everything was solidly grounded there would be no need for GFCIs. With cord and plug connected equipment, the grounding can not be guaranteed.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Hot tub
Charlie
Are you saying that the receptacle and lighting outlets are the only type of outlets?
Or are you using that sentence in context to the question?
Charlie
Are you saying that the receptacle and lighting outlets are the only type of outlets?
Or are you using that sentence in context to the question?
johndeereman
Member
Re: Hot tub
Under Art.680.40 State that you have to go back to part I of this Art. look @ Art.680.5. As far as the distance for the disconnecting means is under Art.680.41 but this is for locatins other than single family dwellings.
Under Art.680.40 State that you have to go back to part I of this Art. look @ Art.680.5. As far as the distance for the disconnecting means is under Art.680.41 but this is for locatins other than single family dwellings.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Hot tub
It is in context with the question. I do not believe there anything that is defined as an outlet that serves a hardwired outlet so GFCI protection is not required in that case.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Hot tub
Charlie I agree with you.If cord connected,Then MR.MRS. happy H/O`R can unplug the tub and plug in a drill or some other appliance and drop them in the tub as he/she is standing in the water Heck here if we have a dedicated 20 amp single device in the garage and it is not there on final we better have a gfci device there.Even a central vacum unit that is not there and is above the height of counted receptacles.Like someone would build a home and have central vac system installed and not have the unit there when they move in
Charlie I agree with you.If cord connected,Then MR.MRS. happy H/O`R can unplug the tub and plug in a drill or some other appliance and drop them in the tub as he/she is standing in the water
Heck here if we have a dedicated 20 amp single device in the garage and it is not there on final we better have a gfci device there.Even a central vacum unit that is not there and is above the height of counted receptacles.Like someone would build a home and have central vac system installed and not have the unit there when they move in jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Hot tub
Allen what code will they site to back that up ?
Allen what code will they site to back that up ?
jdelectric
Member
Re: Hot tub
I agree with aelectricalman. There are times when you need to walk away from some of our customers trying to tell us how to do our jobs. I spend alot of time with certain people explaing the reason for the code and why we all need to enforce it.
I agree with aelectricalman. There are times when you need to walk away from some of our customers trying to tell us how to do our jobs. I spend alot of time with certain people explaing the reason for the code and why we all need to enforce it.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Hot tub
Or this can be mis-interpreted by any inspector or electrician?
Adding the word "receptacle would not be as confusing.
Also if the definition of "outlet" only points to light's and receptacle's wouldn't this have an effect on applying it to AFCI's?
I know "I'm being a trouble maker again.
Then shouldn't 680.44 need to read as :
Bold word added by me
Or this can be mis-interpreted by any inspector or electrician?
Adding the word "receptacle would not be as confusing.
Also if the definition of "outlet" only points to light's and receptacle's wouldn't this have an effect on applying it to AFCI's?
I know "I'm being a trouble maker again.
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Re: Hot tub
Everyone had good answers but in his first sentence he said that it was tripping the GFCI. The first thing I would do is to find out WHY it was tripping and go from there.
Bye now,
Jim
Everyone had good answers but in his first sentence he said that it was tripping the GFCI. The first thing I would do is to find out WHY it was tripping and go from there.
Bye now,
Jim
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