Hot tub

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elecguy21

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i have a neighbor who wired a hot tub and has it installed in a small out door enclusure. he has 6/3 romex feeding a 50 amp gfi and it is tripping as soon as he turns on breaker to tub. undersized bare wire going to gound bar in outdoor gfi box and black and red power wires, white to neutral on breaker . should he have the white in gfci box bounded to ground bar ?

from what i see the unit doesn't need a neutral to tub. any help please.
this is a 1 family house.
 
elecguy21 said:
i have a neighbor who wired a hot tub and has it installed in a small out door enclusure. he has 6/3 romex feeding a 50 amp gfi and it is tripping as soon as he turns on breaker to tub. undersized bare wire going to gound bar in outdoor gfi box and black and red power wires, white to neutral on breaker . should he have the white in gfci box bounded to ground bar ?

from what i see the unit doesn't need a neutral to tub. any help please.
this is a 1 family house.
Click to expand...

The neutral from the breaker needs to be conneceted to the neutral bar regardless of whether there is a neutral on the load.
 
elecguy21 said:
should he have the white in gfci box bounded to ground bar ?
Click to expand...
No, the white pigtail of the GFCI breaker should be connected to the originating panel's neutral bus via an insulated conductor, and not connected to the EGC of the box.
 
Think maybe the hot tub has a problem and the GFCI is working like it's supposed to? :roll:

If it is a used tub, older or of unknown vintage check things out carefully. Most likely a bad heater element, possibly a fault in the lighting if any is installed. Less likely a bad pump motor.

I'd also check his wiring, if you're not the one who actually hooked it up. Could be a ground and neutral in direct contact too.

More info needed from OP to really be helpful here...
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The neutral from the breaker needs to be conneceted to the neutral bar regardless of whether there is a neutral on the load.
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That is what is causing the breaker to trip. From your post I see you have already spotted the fact the ground is undersized. Your neighbor should hire a qualified EC.
 
elecguy21 said:
i undersized bare wire going to gound bar in outdoor gfi box and black and red power wires, white to neutral on breaker . should he have the white in gfci box bounded to ground bar ?
Click to expand...

First off why is the ground wire undersized?

If this is the feeder (bolded section)wire then the white does not go to the breaker. It needs to go to a neutral bar and the white from the GFCI should be connected to it.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If this is the feeder (bolded section)wire then the white does not go to the breaker. It needs to go to a neutral bar and the white from the GFCI should be connected to it.
Click to expand...
I'll tip my hat to the resi guys here, but it sounds to me like the feeder grounded conductor should be capped off at both ends and the breaker white hooked up to the neutral bar.

elecguy21 said:
from what i see the unit doesn't need a neutral to tub.
Click to expand...
 
chris kennedy said:
I'll tip my hat to the resi guys here, but it sounds to me like the feeder grounded conductor should be capped off at both ends and the breaker white hooked up to the neutral bar.
Click to expand...
Chris, I am assuming there is a feeder that goes from an indoor panel to an exterior Spa disco. The GFCI is usually in that Spa disco. If that is the case then the neutrals need connection on the feeder, otherwise you are correct. In either case the GFCI neutral must be connected to the neutral bar.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Chris, I am assuming there is a feeder that goes from an indoor panel to an exterior Spa disco. The GFCI is usually in that Spa disco. If that is the case then the neutrals need connection on the feeder, otherwise you are correct. In either case the GFCI neutral must be connected to the neutral bar.
Click to expand...

I agree, a neutral must be run to where ever the GFCI protection is located.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Chris, I am assuming there is a feeder that goes from an indoor panel to an exterior Spa disco. The GFCI is usually in that Spa disco. If that is the case then the neutrals need connection on the feeder, otherwise you are correct. In either case the GFCI neutral must be connected to the neutral bar.
Click to expand...
stickboy1375 said:
I agree, a neutral must be run to where ever the GFCI protection is located.
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Sorry Dennis, I got ahead of myself there. I agree with both of you. I was thinking the branch circuit to the tub.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
First off why is the ground wire undersized?

If this is the feeder (bolded section)wire then the white does not go to the breaker. It needs to go to a neutral bar and the white from the GFCI should be connected to it.
Click to expand...

Dennis is correct. I first agreed that the OP said the ground was undersized, however #6 nm has a #10 ground which would be compliant.
 
ceb58 said:
Dennis is correct. I first agreed that the OP said the ground was undersized, however #6 nm has a #10 ground which would be compliant.
Click to expand...

Unless the manufacturer calls for an egc that is not reduced. We must bow down to the dang manufacturer so they can cover their butts. I think this stinks.
 
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