topend
Member
- Location
- Parma, Ohio
I just received a call from a customer who swears that when he uses the faucets in one particular sink in his house, there is some sort of voltage in the water. Seems pretty implausible to me... anybody??? 
"hot" water
- Thread starter topend
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: "hot" water
Could be improper or no bonding of the metal water piping, or no hot to cold pipe bonding.
Could be improper or no bonding of the metal water piping, or no hot to cold pipe bonding.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: "hot" water
Could an improper nuetral to case connection have caused this?
Could an improper nuetral to case connection have caused this?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: "hot" water
Possibly an electric hot water heater with a bad element.
Possibly an electric hot water heater with a bad element.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: "hot" water
Not knowing what the customer knows (or thinks he knows about electricity), I would ask a few questions related to the symptoms. Is there a slight tingling sensation when someone touches the faucet? Is it an obvious, or even painful, shock? Does it happen every time you touch the faucet?
Not knowing what the customer knows (or thinks he knows about electricity), I would ask a few questions related to the symptoms. Is there a slight tingling sensation when someone touches the faucet? Is it an obvious, or even painful, shock? Does it happen every time you touch the faucet?
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: "hot" water
I had a customer complain about a similar issue. The gentleman stated to me that his well system had recently been replaced with a new pump and some other equipment. He said shortly after the install, he was receiving a shock from his kitchen faucet. He assumed the well system installer wired something wrong.
I investigated the well equipment and checked all connections and wiring. Everything looked real good. I proceeded into the house to check the faucet area, again nothing. I asked the homeowner to turn the water on as he always does to see if I could get the problem to reveal itself. As soon as the water came on, he pulled his hand back and said its still "hot". Convinced the guy was going crazy, I tested the operation of the faucet to see if I would get the shock. Thats when I figured it out.
As it turned out, the well equipment included a new pressure tank and switch. The pressure going to the house was different then it had always been and for whatever reason started causing a mild vibration on the water line to the kitchen sink. The vibration was in such a way that it simulated the feeling of shock. The customer was relieved and a little embarrassed.
I had a customer complain about a similar issue. The gentleman stated to me that his well system had recently been replaced with a new pump and some other equipment. He said shortly after the install, he was receiving a shock from his kitchen faucet. He assumed the well system installer wired something wrong.
I investigated the well equipment and checked all connections and wiring. Everything looked real good. I proceeded into the house to check the faucet area, again nothing. I asked the homeowner to turn the water on as he always does to see if I could get the problem to reveal itself. As soon as the water came on, he pulled his hand back and said its still "hot". Convinced the guy was going crazy, I tested the operation of the faucet to see if I would get the shock. Thats when I figured it out.
As it turned out, the well equipment included a new pressure tank and switch. The pressure going to the house was different then it had always been and for whatever reason started causing a mild vibration on the water line to the kitchen sink. The vibration was in such a way that it simulated the feeling of shock. The customer was relieved and a little embarrassed.
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: "hot" water
I saw this sort of thing in a rural shower where there was even plastic coming in from the well. Stray current from who knows where on the water itself. With high sodium and mineral contents seen in a lot of wells, the water itself is somewhat conductive.
Bonded H/C feeds, drains, etc and the problem went away.
I saw this sort of thing in a rural shower where there was even plastic coming in from the well. Stray current from who knows where on the water itself. With high sodium and mineral contents seen in a lot of wells, the water itself is somewhat conductive.
Bonded H/C feeds, drains, etc and the problem went away.
lazorko
Member
- Location
- Philadelphia
Re: "hot" water
Found a similar situation: customer complained that there were bubbles coming from bath tub drain when tub was filled - and once saw a spark! I found that the tub was being energized by a branch circuit, maybe from a nail puncture somewhere (the tub area was tiled over a metal lath wall). The plumber's putty and teflon tape must have prevented a good enough ground connection to trip the breaker. Client could have been done for had the enamel been chipped!!
Found a similar situation: customer complained that there were bubbles coming from bath tub drain when tub was filled - and once saw a spark! I found that the tub was being energized by a branch circuit, maybe from a nail puncture somewhere (the tub area was tiled over a metal lath wall). The plumber's putty and teflon tape must have prevented a good enough ground connection to trip the breaker. Client could have been done for had the enamel been chipped!!
Re: "hot" water
Had the same problem at my parents house back in PA. The one outside hose bib seemed to have an electrical current on it. The only thing I could see that was touching the pipe was a telco wire. The problem has seemed to go away. I didn't think the 5 volts on my telco would be enough to feel. Anybody have any thoughts?
Had the same problem at my parents house back in PA. The one outside hose bib seemed to have an electrical current on it. The only thing I could see that was touching the pipe was a telco wire. The problem has seemed to go away. I didn't think the 5 volts on my telco would be enough to feel. Anybody have any thoughts?
Re: "hot" water
Many years ago I had a similar situation. It turned out to be a bad element in a water heater in another house about 400 yards down the road. A lady called to say she got shocked when she turned on her kitchen faucet. We measued 40 volts from her yard to her trailer. Could find nothing wrong in the trailer. Asked her where her water was fed from and she pointed to her land lords house about 400 yards down the road. He didn't even know he had a water heater problem until we turned off the power to his heater and the voltage on the trailer went away. Seems the element had went to ground about mid way of the element. It was still providing warm water. We replaced the element and made both happy.
Many years ago I had a similar situation. It turned out to be a bad element in a water heater in another house about 400 yards down the road. A lady called to say she got shocked when she turned on her kitchen faucet. We measued 40 volts from her yard to her trailer. Could find nothing wrong in the trailer. Asked her where her water was fed from and she pointed to her land lords house about 400 yards down the road. He didn't even know he had a water heater problem until we turned off the power to his heater and the voltage on the trailer went away. Seems the element had went to ground about mid way of the element. It was still providing warm water. We replaced the element and made both happy.
Re: "hot" water
Forgot to mention that Mike just recently sent out a news letter on stray voltage in a pool. Seems like it was under five volts and folks were getting a tingle. Being of the more mellowed varity I occasionally get a "shock" when there is no voltage present. A tendon or joint will shift or snap a little and it will feel exactly like a mild shock. And dont forget the static version from petting the cat and then turning on the faucet. Some of us more mellowed cant hear the pop but we feel the tingle.
Forgot to mention that Mike just recently sent out a news letter on stray voltage in a pool. Seems like it was under five volts and folks were getting a tingle. Being of the more mellowed varity I occasionally get a "shock" when there is no voltage present. A tendon or joint will shift or snap a little and it will feel exactly like a mild shock. And dont forget the static version from petting the cat and then turning on the faucet. Some of us more mellowed cant hear the pop but we feel the tingle.
gregoryelectricinc
Senior Member
Re: "hot" water
Had a very simillar situation. Customer reported "sizzling" in bathroom sink when water was running. Upon arriving, I opened the electrical panel. Customer informed mr that his brother-in-law had installed that panel for him a couple of years prior. As soon as I removed the cover, I noticed there was no Ground rod OR water pipe bond wire in the panel as well as enough other code violations to fill a page or 2 of this post. I ran a temporary bond wire across the floors to the water main and attached the bond wire to the panel. Instantly, the washer circuit tripped its breaker. Turns out that the washer was shorted out but wouldn't trip breaker (no ground reference=no trip. This was energizing all the copper water pipe throughoput the house. Definitley was one of my most "odd" service calls.
Jim
Had a very simillar situation. Customer reported "sizzling" in bathroom sink when water was running. Upon arriving, I opened the electrical panel. Customer informed mr that his brother-in-law had installed that panel for him a couple of years prior. As soon as I removed the cover, I noticed there was no Ground rod OR water pipe bond wire in the panel as well as enough other code violations to fill a page or 2 of this post. I ran a temporary bond wire across the floors to the water main and attached the bond wire to the panel. Instantly, the washer circuit tripped its breaker. Turns out that the washer was shorted out but wouldn't trip breaker (no ground reference=no trip. This was energizing all the copper water pipe throughoput the house. Definitley was one of my most "odd" service calls.
Jim
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: "hot" water
I had a problem like this once at an apartment complex. When any of the basement apartment residents would try to take a shower they would receive a bad shock standing on a bare tile floor over concrete. after some test it turned out that the building had the water main replaced with a plastic section when the copper started getting holes in it. this was because the concentric primary neutral feeding the transformer pad was burned off from electrolysis this was caused by a loose crimp of this neutral to the MGN at the pole across a field. we also had to replace the ground rod as there was only about 2' of them left. the transformer was getting its return path back to the pole through the earth. If all the rods would have burned completely off we could of had 7200 volts between these water pipes and earth.
I had a problem like this once at an apartment complex. When any of the basement apartment residents would try to take a shower they would receive a bad shock standing on a bare tile floor over concrete. after some test it turned out that the building had the water main replaced with a plastic section when the copper started getting holes in it. this was because the concentric primary neutral feeding the transformer pad was burned off from electrolysis this was caused by a loose crimp of this neutral to the MGN at the pole across a field. we also had to replace the ground rod as there was only about 2' of them left. the transformer was getting its return path back to the pole through the earth. If all the rods would have burned completely off we could of had 7200 volts between these water pipes and earth.
topend
Member
- Location
- Parma, Ohio
Re: "hot" water
Thanks, everyone. The problem turned out to be that the sink drain was energized by what must have been compromised insulation on a piece of romex between two receptacles below in a finished basement. Since it was the last receptacle in the circuit, I just disconnected it.
Thanks, everyone. The problem turned out to be that the sink drain was energized by what must have been compromised insulation on a piece of romex between two receptacles below in a finished basement. Since it was the last receptacle in the circuit, I just disconnected it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: "hot" water
That is unusual, thanks for filling us in with the outcome, good that you found the problem.
That is unusual, thanks for filling us in with the outcome, good that you found the problem.
Re: "hot" water
I had a simular situation on Ga. A worker got shocked when he was drinking from a outside water faucet. The house was being built and the final had not been done yet so the pipes were not bonded yet.
I also had a situation when the outside siding of a house was hot. The siding guy had drove a nail into a piece of romex. Took awhile to find that nail though, and alot of drywall damage. It was kinda funny though, the siding guy came and told me it was hot and I didn't belive him, so he grabed ahold of it and got shocked to show me, what a moron.
I had a simular situation on Ga. A worker got shocked when he was drinking from a outside water faucet. The house was being built and the final had not been done yet so the pipes were not bonded yet.
I also had a situation when the outside siding of a house was hot. The siding guy had drove a nail into a piece of romex. Took awhile to find that nail though, and alot of drywall damage. It was kinda funny though, the siding guy came and told me it was hot and I didn't belive him, so he grabed ahold of it and got shocked to show me, what a moron.
Re: "hot" water
Looks like member #16016 GPENDENS has the problem nailed.
This is not a very common problem and I have seen it only twice in 35 years.
Most likly a defective element in either the customers water heater or one of the neighbors.
Thats where it may get difficult to find.
Check the customers WH first. If not there you will have to convince each one of his neighbors to turn off the breaker to their water heater on command for you while you are reading the voltage with a meter between the faucet and another ground
at your customers house. If it goes away when their breaker is turned off you have located the source.
You now have to convince the neighbor he has two problems and needs to fix both. The first is a bad WH element. The second is most likely a compromised ground connection between his service and his earth rod and/or cold water pipe if it is metalic.
Good luck because you will get hung up on more than once.
Looks like member #16016 GPENDENS has the problem nailed.
This is not a very common problem and I have seen it only twice in 35 years.
Most likly a defective element in either the customers water heater or one of the neighbors.
Thats where it may get difficult to find.
Check the customers WH first. If not there you will have to convince each one of his neighbors to turn off the breaker to their water heater on command for you while you are reading the voltage with a meter between the faucet and another ground
at your customers house. If it goes away when their breaker is turned off you have located the source.
You now have to convince the neighbor he has two problems and needs to fix both. The first is a bad WH element. The second is most likely a compromised ground connection between his service and his earth rod and/or cold water pipe if it is metalic.
Good luck because you will get hung up on more than once.
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