House Estimating

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wmeek

Senior Member
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Hey
I was wanting to know what housing in the Houston Area was going for in Square Foot Pricing. I am new to estimating and was trying to get an idea of what the electrical was being priced at. I have a house with approx. 1721 sq. ft. , being all electric. Nothing special .
Has
6 recess lights
6 ceiling fans
20kw Heat
4 ton AC
 
There are many postings on here that discuss Sq Ft pricing, most contractors use unit pricing, and establish a estimate based on project plans, with takeoff information. They may take this estimate and convert it to a sq ft price.

You don't buy cable or devices by the sq ft., and you don,t install wiring by the square ft, so it has no value as a means to estimate an electrical job.
Installations will differ from one project to another, job conditions will not be the same, the structures may differ in construction methods, local codes may require different wiring methods, such as EMT required rather then cable.

For production wiring, that has been installed and actuals established, a sq ft price can be derived.

By using a going rate, your leaving yourself open to problems, you don't know if that rate lost mone, or made money, you don't know what the other guys cost of operating was, and he most likely din't know either, if he was using sq ft pricing.

Learning to estimate a job for profit, is well worth the time and effort, there are plenty of postings on the site that may help, and plenty of good reference books for estimating on this site.
 
Satcom is right. There are to many variables. High ceilings? Large kitchen with tons of counter top? Double oven & cook-top? Trash Compactor? Tankless water heater (on demand)? Floor plugs? Ceiling fans with 1 switch or 2 (or remote)?

There is just nothing like seeing a floor plan. :cool:
 
By using RSMeans Residential cost book, I have came up with appr. $ 10,400 for everything . Owner to provide all light fixtures and fans. I am not so sure how close or far off I am. I am hoping their labor units are somewhat close.Thats why I was trying to see what others thought.
 
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wmeek said:
By using Rs Means Reidential cost book
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Just remember, the cost book does not include set up times, for example ladder moves, equipment or tool tasks, or job conditions, it also does not include the cost of delays and schedule changes, all these are real costs, usually about 30% of job cost, so you had $10400 it might turn out to be $13500 or more, when you add your conditions and set up times.

Means is more of a time motion unit, then an actual timed unit cost, there is nothing like having an estimators book, with recorded job actuals.
 
What kind of estimator book are you refering to
Are you referring to an actual job dialog
 
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Throw the square footage out the window, think in assemblies. Home run lengths change, but disco installs, plug and switch assemblies, constant. Lights and fans are subject to elevations, and inside, or out.

Fast and dirty quick way to estimating by item is here. It's not exact, but fast and reasonably cheap, it will get you an idea of what the national average is, then you need to see where you are in comparison by a percentage. Law of averages will absorb some errors, fluff others. Don't forget all the things that go into a labor unit...break time, drive time, hidden burdens, etc.
 
1,700 sq ft is not that large, but you still may have a homeowner who is leaning towards heavy customization. Will there be granite countertops?. An Island to deal with? A custom kitchen cabinet layout that only shows up on the project after the drywall has been painted? A housewife that likes to run you in endless circles with changes and adds and what she really needs to do is get a job and stay out of your hair. That is also the kind of stuff that will sink you if you start bidding sq. foot unless you either know in front, or else bid it like Bill Gates is moving in. For a plain vanilla code compliant house with the stuff you describe, 10-12 k is not ridiculously low, but you won't retire on that one either.
 
wmeek said:
What kind of estimator book are you refering to
Are you referring to an actual job dialog
Click to expand...

A lot of the professional estimators, have records of job actuals, the actual labor units, conditions and assy times, from completed projects.
 
Around here which is West Texas you will not get more than $4.50 a sq ft for that. I don't know how some people get 10k for a house that size. If it has an underground service you will get more, depending on the length. We do not wire very many new houses, we do a few and are lucky to get $5800 for a 1600 sq ft house, total electric with an overhead service.

People are always saying you are too cheap, but in truth there are a good amount of contractors who would take that price and knock off $800 just to get the job. Are they making money? I don't think so, unless they are self employed, driving a paid for older vehicle and are not paying workers comp. If that is what you are, then you should make wages.

For us dwellings are not a cash cow. The only reason we wire houses is because we were slow about 5 years ago and needed to make wages. Now I guess they are just a hobby.

So back to the house price, $ 4.50 x 1721= $ 7,658.40. Honestly for this area that is a good price for a basic spec home. Here a house type that would go for about $ 6,500 tops. Good luck !!
 
Thanks for the info.
What I have come up with is 110.526 man hours, not including service.
110.526 x 50.00 =5026.30 Labor for rough and trim out.
1700 for 200A overhead 20/40 Ge panel Nema 3r, Cost includes all breakers and 5 ARC fault breakers.
Materials = 3,351.11

Total = 9,377.41 Plus permits which should be around 300.00
 
If I was you, I would seriously spend some time figuring out what your overhead really costs you per hour to be in business. $50 an hour for labor is not going to cut it. The end result is that the delivery driver who drops off materials to the jobsite is making more money than you will.
 
Wmeek - I've been following this thread - as I'm very new to contracting, and I'm still working to come up with a estimation scheme. Curious how you came up with the material cost.

Also - does anyone else have any experience/exposure to that 2007 Electrical Estimator - both book and CD? Someone earlier provided the link, and I'd appreciate any feedback before shelling out the $50+ dollars for it. I don't mind spending the $50 - just want to know if others have found it useful. If it's something that would at least take a different, more structured approach - then I'd be inclined to go for it. I'm figuring at least I could compare to my "Wheel of Bids" or "Proposal Price Dartboard" approaches.

Brett
 
Here in Utah electricians must be fools.

I've only wired a few new homes and have yet to figure out how anyone around here is making money on them.

A guy I've know for years was building a new home and really wanted me to wire it for him. It was a little over 2,000 sq. foot on the main level with about 1,800 sq. foot of unifinished basement. I gave him what I thought was a very low price of $6,500. He told me all the other bids were around $4,500. This was about 2 years ago.

Since I've known the guy for years I decided I would show him my break down of costs and profit. He looked at it and said; if you took your overhead and profit out of the bid you would be competetive. :(

People wiring these must be crazy.

My neighbors building a custom home with 4,500 sq. foot finished. He's acting as his own contractor and hiring subs for the work. He knows I don't wire new homes. I was curious and asked him how much the electrcal was. He said the electrician was wiring it for $1.65 per sq. ft. He said that included about 15 can lights and the electrical service.

Today, against my better judgment, I went out to give a bid on a basement wiring job. I don't like bidding on basement wire jobs either. I try to concentrate on service and repair work.

My price was $2,600.

The guy that was out before me was a little over $900.
Is he nuts? Why even bother?

She had another guy coming out tommorrow to give her another bid.

Below is what the job consisted of:

15 Duplex Receptacles
8 Can Lights
2 Smoke Detectors
1 Smoke/CO Detector
1 Ceiling Fan
2 Surface Mount Customer Supplied Lights
3 Single Pole Dimmer Switches
3 Single Pole Switches
2 TV Jacks
2 Phone Jacks
1 AFCI Circuit For Bedroom 15 amp
1 General Purpose Circuit 15 amp

Housing out here seems to be booming. I constantly here about how everyone's so busy they can't keep up. I've had GCs call wanting me to wire houses for them because the electrician they usually use can't keep up. When I give them my price they soon change their mind. If all these guys are so busy why don't they raise their prices?

I don't know why some electricians around here bother being in business. They sure aren't doing it for the money. They must be crazy!

I'd really like to see how they come up with these insanely low prices.
 
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Brett,


I provided the earlier link, so let me give you a link for a 30 day free trial run.

Click here, so that you can decide if it' fits your activities, or to toss it.

There are some sharp residential people who grind numbers in the forum here, hopefully they will contribute.
 
aline said:
I don't know why some electricians around here bother being in business. They sure aren't doing it for the money. /QUOTE]

Cause we are all like Richard Gere in An Officer And A Gentleman. We got no place else to go.
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Here in Utah electricians must be fools.

I've only wired a few new homes and have yet to figure out how anyone around here is making money on them.

A guy I've know for years was building a new home and really wanted me to wire it for him. It was a little over 2,000 sq. foot on the main level with about 1,800 sq. foot of unifinished basement. I gave him what I thought was a very low price of $6,500. He told me all the other bids were around $4,500. This was about 2 years ago.

Since I've known the guy for years I decided I would show him my break down of costs and profit. He looked at it and said; if you took your overhead and profit out of the bid you would be competetive. :(

People wiring these must be crazy.
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100% correct. I've played a bit in the St. George market, and they are ridiculous. So much as for a Masters in Utah...Sigh:(
 
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