House fire due to floating equipment grounds and incorrectly wired panel

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Patpowers

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Location
Mississippi
Occupation
Electrician
This is how I spent my morning investigating an electrical fire. Fire department said it was an overheated receptacle failure. They were dead wrong. I found the real cause!!

 
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AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
I like your accent makes me think of some nice people I use to work with.
What made you go to the dryer. Meter it out in panel first and traced it that way ?
 
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Patpowers

Member
Location
Mississippi
Occupation
Electrician
Sorry about the crude video. I make these for my personal records. So with my cajun New Orleans ascent and some improper terminology, I wasn’t expecting to share it. After what I discovered, I figured I needed to share it anyway.

Fire inspector said it was an over heated receptacle that caused the fire. I was called to repair it. Before I jump into running new cables and installing new receptacles, I check the integrity of the electrical system and verify what the fire inspector claims.

Customer complained of several shocks touching appliances over the past 12 years.

Customer witnessed sparks and smelled smoke at the damaged window site when the dryer was turned on.

After inspecting the primary pole panel and the secondary sun-panel, I immediately knew there was no EGC from main panel to sub-panel. The neutral bar was not bonded in the sub-panel and the equipment grounds were separate and independent from any path to the service Grounding Electrode System. Therefore the equipment grounds in the entire house was (floating) and could carry any amount of fault current without a way to cause an OCPD to open the circuit. The dryer was recently installed, by a Big Box Store installer. That fault was too much current pushed by to much voltage that it seeked a way back to source.

In my opinion, the only reason these people have not been electrocuted to death is because the house is not on slab. Approximately 4ft from grade with wooden floors. The microwave, fridge, and other kitchen appliances were several feet apart with the exception of the oven, it caught on fire three years ago, so it was completely unplugged. The only two metal surfaces that was easily touchable at the same time would be that oven and any other appliance, it was in the middle. That oven caught on fire the day they purchased it and immediately unplugged it. If it had been plugged in with the breaker off, the metal surface would had still been bonded to the floating equipment grounds. Touching that stove and microwave or fridge or toaster would had certainly left someone dead or seriously injured.
 
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tthh

Senior Member
Location
Denver
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Just unbelievable. They just don't know how lucky they are to be alive. But, I'm shaking my head they lived like this for 12 years. I guess the original install was never inspected -- it certainly wasn't done by someone who knew what they were doing.
 
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Patpowers

Member
Location
Mississippi
Occupation
Electrician
This is in Jones County Mississippi, we have three cities that fall under an AHJ. Ellisville, SoSo, and Laurel (where the Hometown show is produced). Laurel is under 2017 and the remaining two are under 2014NEC. Outside of these city jurisdictions it is the Wild West and you can get away with anything. This house was literally one block outside of an AHJ. The Wild West days are coming to an end! The entire Jones County will be under AHJ; due to an agreement made when the county accepted government funds from Hurricane Katrina damage that occurred August 29th , 2005. As of July 1st , 2022 ; less than two weeks away; the entire county will be under AHJ to honor the agreement. However, it’s not sure how this will be implemented and the county is still working on getting everything in order. My expectations are that we will be under full county enforcement by December. It really should be that way. We deal with stuff that can injure or kill people and destroy property. I appreciate having my work inspected. It gives me and my clients piece of mind and formal record that my services were performed in a approved and safe manner. In my experience I have yet to come across an inspector that was a plain out jerk. I treat them with respect and verify that they will approve my methods and plans to prevent misunderstandings or failed inspections. Never failed an inspection yet.
 
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Patpowers

Member
Location
Mississippi
Occupation
Electrician
Little Bill said:
Just out of curiosity, was that some type of mobile/mfg home?
Little Bill said:
Just out of curiosity, was that some type of mobile/mfg home?
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I believed it was a mfg and later modified. Most of the house had metal beams supported by blocks while another portion seemed to be a pier and beam built with actual pier footings. I didn’t find any of those mobile home receptacles; I think they are called self contained receptacles, where the cables are contained in the outlet using a bladed snap cover to pierce the cables. My best assessment: someone got their hands on a cheap mobile home, decided to make it bigger. There’s no building codes are enforcement in that area.
Click to expand...
 
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tthh

Senior Member
Location
Denver
Occupation
Retired Engineer
You might want to let the fire dept know the real cause and let them deal with it or not. At least no one can say you didn't try.
 
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