house fire , started by electrical being turned back on after storm

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Wouldn’t hurt to turn them off, but most of the time when we have outages I’m sleeping or not home.

Biggest concern locally would be the overhead neutrals from the transformer secondaries. They may have been compromised but the POCO is more interested in getting the distribution back up first.
 
In an outage situation like after a storm, maybe not a bad idea, especially if you are going to leave your home. I really doubt a "surge" caused that fire though, unless it was a result of accidental crossing up medium voltage lines with low voltage lines - but then the chances of effecting more utility customers is good.

Is possible they had something on that maybe shouldn't be unattended when in use when power was lost, then power gets restored while they are away and this item is operating unattended.
 
ptonsparky said:
Wouldn’t hurt to turn them off, but most of the time when we have outages I’m sleeping or not home.

Biggest concern locally would be the overhead neutrals from the transformer secondaries. They may have been compromised but the POCO is more interested in getting the distribution back up first.
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Is there anything for the consumer market that could be installed to detect high voltage from either hot to ground that could be used to cut off power in the home and prevent damage due to missing neutrals?
 
kwired said:
In an outage situation like after a storm, maybe not a bad idea, especially if you are going to leave your home. I really doubt a "surge" caused that fire though, unless it was a result of accidental crossing up medium voltage lines with low voltage lines - but then the chances of effecting more utility customers is good.

Is possible they had something on that maybe shouldn't be unattended when in use when power was lost, then power gets restored while they are away and this item is operating unattended.
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I agree on all points. Not a bad idea to flip the main off if LEAVING due to a power outage, because you never know what CAUSED that outage and if the cause also meant damage to something in your house and you are not there to see it immediately when power is restored, things like this can happen. So it might have been a crossed wire that took place WHEN the power failed, not when it came back on, and that cause a flashover in something in the house that didn’t show up until power returned.

But the possibility that something was left on and came back on when power was restored is the most likely scenario. At my son’s apartment one summer, power failed at around 4PM and was off for 2 hours, during which most of the residents were hanging out at the pool drinking. When power came back on, the pool party continued into the night and one apartment caught fire because the resident had left soup cooking on the stove. So when power came back on and the then drunk occupant stayed at the pool, the soup boiled away and caught fire.

I used to get worked up about inaccurate reporting and people boiling complex issues down into info-bites like “power surge”, but reporting is so poor everywhere now, I just got used to it.
 
gadfly56 said:
Is there anything for the consumer market that could be installed to detect high voltage from either hot to ground that could be used to cut off power in the home and prevent damage due to missing neutrals?
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Well is certainly possible to connect voltage monitoring relay(s) to a contactor or shunt trip breaker.
 
Realistically, if a medium voltage line connects unintentionally to the wires going to your house I wonder if having the breaker open is going to help any?

The other thing is that what setting are you going to set your over voltage relay for that trips your main breaker? Set it too low and normal transients will trip it. Set the time delay too long and the damage will be done before it has a chance to trip.
 
And don't forget to buy surge protectors!
Watching the news kills me, my wife keeps telling me it's just a tv show.
We had 11hours of "news coverage" about someone calling in a fake gun threat; complete with crying students.
 
sameguy said:
And don't forget to buy surge protectors!
Watching the news kills me, my wife keeps telling me it's just a tv show.
We had 11hours of "news coverage" about someone calling in a fake gun threat; complete with crying students.
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I have just about quit watching tv news. So much is fake or entertainment orientated it is meaningless and that which could use a more in depth focus is given the 15 second sound byte then on to the next drivel.
 
Fake news, yet again.


The only thing that I can think of that would make this article remotely true is an open neutral caused by a tree limb damaging the service drop after the area lost power. Something like a TV exposed to over 120 catches fire once power is restored. But opening the main does not grantee that once it is closed the HO will immediately notice the open neutral.




kwired said:
In an outage situation like after a storm, maybe not a bad idea, especially if you are going to leave your home. I really doubt a "surge" caused that fire though, unless it was a result of accidental crossing up medium voltage lines with low voltage lines - but then the chances of effecting more utility customers is good.

Is possible they had something on that maybe shouldn't be unattended when in use when power was lost, then power gets restored while they are away and this item is operating unattended.
Click to expand...


If MV falls into LV, having the main open may not do much in terms of stopping a fire.
 
What Smart Meters don't eject themselves from the sockets automatically when power is lost??

what we need a smart sockets that automatically open upon loss of power. Or better yet, honest reporting.
 
mbrooke said:
If MV falls into LV, having the main open may not do much in terms of stopping a fire.
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I agree, all depends on conditions each time such a thing would happen.

Seen aftermath of a transmission line dropping a conductor onto MV distribution line, and although power was out almost instantly it still caused damage here and there all over town on various customer items.
 
kwired said:
I agree, all depends on conditions each time such a thing would happen.

Seen aftermath of a transmission line dropping a conductor onto MV distribution line, and although power was out almost instantly it still caused damage here and there all over town on various customer items.
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Oh yes. An open main may stop certain over voltages like 800 volts appearing between the incoming line, but if you get 20,000 volts on any conductor all bets are off. That will do the same (if not worse) damage as a direct lightning strike.
 
It was a 19th-century farmhouse. Who knows what kind of panel & wiring was in there, what modifications were made after it was built, or when it was last inspected? (if ever)

If there were a lot of motors, variable-speed drives, switching power supplies or other consumers that draw a high starting current, there might have been a "surge" of current that was more than the panel could handle. And if the voltage sagged enough, motors might never start.

But it's just as likely that the fire's origin wasn't electrical at all. The fire marshal's office was investigating, but hadn't published their findings. The only "evidence" for an electrical fire is the homeowner's idle speculation.
 
drcampbell said:
It was a 19th-century farmhouse. Who knows what kind of panel & wiring was in there, what modifications were made after it was built, or when it was last inspected? (if ever)

If there were a lot of motors, variable-speed drives, switching power supplies or other consumers that draw a high starting current, there might have been a "surge" of current that was more than the panel could handle. And if the voltage sagged enough, motors might never start.

But it's just as likely that the fire's origin wasn't electrical at all. The fire marshal's office was investigating, but hadn't published their findings. The only "evidence" for an electrical fire is the homeowner's idle speculation.
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In that case it would just trip out the main. I can't see general consumer items, even in abundance, starting a fire from high inrush.
 
Reminds me of a situation here several years ago, the result of a storm like we just had here the other day. Several houses lost power and riding around I could see where a tree came down causing the primary (12.5kV I believe) to get tangled with the secondary just up the street.

I took a closer look at one affected house down the street from me since I knew the owners and had done some work there at one time. The SE from the weather head, the meter and SE going into the house was fried. I remember them having a Zinsco panel. I attempted to talk to the husband just to advise him to contact an EC (I wouldn't have anything to do with them any longer since the husband is a complete whack job) but he wouldn't listen (just as I figured, he was probably thinking I was trying to take his money). Several days later I see POCO going through the neighborhood restoring power. I caught them just in time as they were about to restore that section and told them to cut that drop down before going any further. They should look at the service on that house.

Fast forward about three weeks and I hear about these people calling and calling the POCO because they are still without power. My wife knows the wife and I tell her to tell them that they need a new service, theirs was damaged and to call an electrician. The response was that it worked before, everybody has their power back on except us. Somebody must have gotten through to them because in a few days I see an EC there.

Fast forward another week and now we see them on the local cable news channel all sitting in their living room wrapped up in blankets, dog included (dog has the only functioning brain cells). Dumb reporter hasn't a clue and sides with the family blaming the POCO for dragging their feet. What really happened was the whack job husband wouldn't allow the work to be inspected so POCO wouldn't connect them. Didn't want anybody in his house.

So after that publicity a day or so later I see POCO there with a bunch of fire department trucks. POCO gave up and connected the service without an inspection. Fire department was there just in case. :jawdrop:

Yup, that's the house I would want to live in. They lost all their appliances and TVs, nobody meggered anything. Fortunately it got sold and torn down a few weeks ago.

-Hal
 
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shockboy said:
has anyone ever heard of this? i've always left my breaker (main) on, while waiting for the power to come back on.
http://turnto10.com/news/local/fire...-turn-off-circuit-breakers-after-losing-power
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shockboy said:
i'm with all of you, i don't think it was a surge either. my first thought was a generator was running when the power came back on, but the news says, she wasn't home . and there was mention of a generator.
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If they had some sort of rigged generator backfed to the house and the power came on that could be bad. Should be easy to find out if they had the correct transfer switch.

Who knows what really started the fire? If the insurance company wants to send out an investigator they could possibly find out but they may just accept that it was electrical and pay off.

From what I have seen they don't investigate fires as much as you would think. Unless someone is killed or there is really a large amount of money involved.
 
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