How do you get employer to classify hazardous locations?

[det_wireman]

I know I'm long winded but please bear with me.
:roll: :roll:
Our facility has been assembling and painting cars for the past 25 years. Over those years many changes have taken place in the Paint Shop i.e.? the types of paints (oil-based to water-borne), the additions of some ovens and changes in processes. We still spray an oil based primer and clear-coat.

As a new electrician to the area (doing maintenance on the existing equipment) I see seal-offs with the sealing compound broken out and missing, some flexible explosion-proof conduits badly worn with holes (from moving automation) and broken electrical fittings exposing conductors. These conditions exist in what I think are classified hazardous areas. The trouble is I really do not know. :?:

I am treated as a troublemaker when I tell management I need to know the classification of areas, where existing boundaries are, so I can make repairs and I know how to wire the areas safely.

Our company has recently adopted the NEC as their electrical standard. I pointed out to management we are violating it, 500.4(A) & 505.4(A). My boss told me this issue has been discussed before and the company does not know how classification and documentation could be accomplished. He asked how I would do it. I told him I didn?t know and I wasn?t qualified to take on such a task. Since then my questions about this subject are ignored and disregarded.

How does a lowly regarded hourly-employee make a big employer aware their present policy is unsafe and they must be NEC compliant? Who would do this task? Oh, by the way, this old man does not want to lose his job (25 years seniority) but I do not want anyone hurt because of my ambivalence.

 

[tshea]

Our company has recently adopted the NEC as their electrical standard. I pointed out to management we are violating it, 500.4(A) & 505.4(A). My boss told me this issue has been discussed before and the company does not know how classification and documentation could be accomplished. He asked how I would do it. I told him I didn?t know and I wasn?t qualified to take on such a task. Since then my questions about this subject are ignored and disregarded.

Do you have a Safety Director? He would be the one to classify the area. Now if you really feel strongly about the work area, mention to the boss, in a non-threatening tone, that OSHA would have a field day in here.

Sometimes OSHA has a voluntary inspection that will help you.

Another source is your local Fire Dept. Bigger ones have safety inspection service.

 

[rbalex]

Specifically they are in violation of FedOSHA 1910.119(d)(3)(i)(C) which specifically requires electrical classifications to be maintained and kept up to date. This can literally be a "Go to jail - do not pass Go" situation if a formal complaint is filed or an accident occurs.

I have found the best way to handle such situations is to have the company's insurance carrier review the documentation.

 

[petersonra]

Re: How do you get employer to classify hazardous locations?

I
Our company has recently adopted the NEC as their electrical standard.

How does someone get the option to adopt the NEC or not?

 

[det_wireman]

petersonra asked:

How does someone get the option to adopt the NEC or not?

The company I work for is one of the big 3. Everyone knows the financial troubles and fierce competition the U.S. automakers are experiencing at this time. It is my understanding our company had its own set of electrical specifications and standards it adhered to for many years. I think they were called ES1. I believe it was very expensive to maintain their own set of rules governing safe wiring methods because they had to pay engineers, layers and other people (expensive bureaucracy) to oversee it and decided what the electrical standards would be. I think to save money they dropped their own standards and said we would follow the NEC.

 

[petersonra]

ES1 has almost nothing to do with the NEC. It mostly covers things the NEC does not cover, mostly what is now covered in NFPA79. The NEC is NFPA70.

If they have abandoned ES1 in favor of NFPA79, I applaud them.

 

[det_wireman]

petersonra,

All I know is last year we were told our facility would be working under the NEC. I will try and do a little research and see if I can get some accurate information on what transpired.

You seem like a very bright guy so if you could add anything to my actual question I would appreciate it. :wink:

 

[petersonra]

petersonra,

All I know is last year we were told our facility would be working under the NEC. I will try and do a little research and see if I can get some accurate information on what transpired.

You seem like a very bright guy so if you could add anything to my actual question I would appreciate it. :wink:

I don't have anything on point to add that the other posters have not mentioned already.

Someone qualified needs to take a look at what the hazards are and make a determination as to just what the area classification should be in each area and then update the documentation to reflect that. The key would be to get someone who is qualified to make that determination. It might be necessary to call in an outside specialist. That would almost certainly require some action from management, maybe several layers up the chain.

 

[det_wireman]

I am not a virgin anymore - this was my first post.

I appreciate the responses and information.

Thanks to all of you.

Detroit_Wireman

 

[dlhoule]

I am not a virgin anymore - this was my first post.

I appreciate the responses and information.

Thanks to all of you.

Detroit_Wireman

I am assuming you work for GM. Ford and Chrysler both have their facilities covered by a Master Electrician. I cannot believe a Master Electrician would not be interested in these items.

I would talk to someone in Engineering and point out the potential for law suits if something were to happen.

Also, they are violating Michigan Law if they are doing anything other than routine maintenance without using State Licensed Electricians.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

This is a tough spot for you to be in. You want corrections, yet you do not want to lose your job.....Hmmmmmmm

You will have to make a choice, which to me seems easy... you mentioned you do not want to see anyone hurt/killed. Have a meeting with whomever and start the ball rolling to locate who makes the electrical decisions. This may be your express oneway ticket out, that is your choice.

Point out some of the refinery explosions from this past year which led to deaths and huge financial costs, this may jog a few brain cells with them.

 

[rbalex]

Re: How do you get employer to classify hazardous locations?

"det_wireman"...

Our company has recently adopted the NEC as their electrical standard. I pointed out to management we are violating it, 500.4(A) & 505.4(A). My boss told me this issue has been discussed before and the company does not know how classification and documentation could be accomplished. He asked how I would do it. I told him I didn?t know and I wasn?t qualified to take on such a task. Since then my questions about this subject are ignored and disregarded.

...

[rbalex italics added]

Forgive me for not addressing this sooner. The Fine Print Notes of Section 500.4(B) refer to several standards that outline the procedure for both determining electrical area classification and how to document it. I recommend NFPA 497. In addition, Article 516 gives specific directions for many paint applications.

 

[muskiedog]

You can also try these OSHA standards related to spray painting booths, etc.

1910.94
1910.107
1917.153

It will really get down to the process in use and hazards associated with. As stated above your local fire cheif should be able to also help you determine your hazard areas.

I worked in the printing industry for years and we had to do hazard assessments of the different areas to determine fire code issues, insurance issues, etc.

Your insurance carry would be more then glad to help, but make sure the informatiojn they provide can be backed up a some standards, code. etc. I had one that was telling the owners that they would have to redo the fire susspresion ssytem in the warehouse dist end after we had just build a new plant with state of the art equipment.

He was on the wrong page in the standards.