How does Con Edison afford this?

[mbrooke]

Small strip mall fed with a 2x service. 2 separate aerial bundle circuits, tapped to dive underground. Each feeds an individual network transformer- both 480 volt secondaries in parallel. My question is, how does Con Edison afford two times the infrastructure for a single story building out in the boonies?
Typically this would be a one 3 phase URD with a few padmounts around the property.

https://imgur.com/YJjObR7

https://imgur.com/QaDWBVO

https://imgur.com/XQ3HQvM

 

[Coppersmith]

Aren't you forgetting the secret Government bunker hidden under the mall. It needs lots of power. Ooops. Never mind. Nothing to see here.

 

[mbrooke]

Aren't you forgetting the secret Government bunker hidden under the mall. It needs lots of power. Ooops. Never mind. Nothing to see here.

Forgot about that one.

 

[gadfly56]

I think the more correct question would be "How can ConEd customers afford two times the infrastructure"?

 

[mbrooke]

I think the more correct question would be "How can ConEd customers afford two times the infrastructure"?

Didn't someone let it slip Con Ed customers had the highest rates in the nation? This might explain why.

 

[steve66]

All depends on the anticipated revenue over the first years after install. The POCO normally calculates that based on the load info. provided by the customer. The POCO will credit some some percentage of that for the install off the installation cost.

The rest (anything above and beyond the credit) is all on the customer. For all we know, the customer completely paid for the second transformer and install.

 

[mbrooke]

All depends on the anticipated revenue over the first years after install. The POCO normally calculates that based on the load info. provided by the customer. The POCO will credit some some percentage of that for the install off the installation cost.

The rest (anything above and beyond the credit) is all on the customer. For all we know, the customer completely paid for the second transformer and install.

I guess a lot of customers like paying for their second transformer

 

[steve66]

Its obviously not that anyone wants to pay more than they have to.

But if you can get redundancy by having the POCO provide 2 transformers and 2 primary feeds, it may be worth the added cost to some clients.

With an AHJ approval and some attention to detail (including the 10 second transfer rule), that second utility feed can even be an emergency source.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Couple of questions.. how do you know both XFs are 480?

I see one circuit with bare wire, and two circuits with UG wire bundled overhead.

a triple circuit pole would take a lot of height to meet clearances.
I don’t know how far out in the boonies they are, but we used to have UG wires bundled like that for clearances in a downtown area until the city had a MAJOR infrastructure overhaul, it was then we buried the wire and got it out of the air While the street was torn to pieces.

 

[petersonra]

my guess is the customer was charged for it upfront, or as part of the service package.

 

[mbrooke]

Couple of questions.. how do you know both XFs are 480?

I see one circuit with bare wire, and two circuits with UG wire bundled overhead.

a triple circuit pole would take a lot of height to meet clearances.
I don’t know how far out in the boonies they are, but we used to have UG wires bundled like that for clearances in a downtown area until the city had a MAJOR infrastructure overhaul, it was then we buried the wire and got it out of the air While the street was torn to pieces.

480 is what the building uses and I see no MV secondary. Typically Con Ed will plop down a network transformer and run the secondaries into a collector bus (often in a vault) and then feed to the customer.

Poles are average height in this case.

Some POCOs will run bundled MV for extra circuits from one pole and/or reliability.

 

[mbrooke]

my guess is the customer was charged for it upfront, or as part of the service package.

The strip mall has multiple customers- unless of course there is one landlord and power is included in the rent.

 

[Hv&Lv]

480 is what the building uses and I see no MV secondary. Typically Con Ed will plop down a network transformer and run the secondaries into a collector bus (often in a vault) and then feed to the customer.

Poles are average height in this case.

Some POCOs will run bundled MV for extra circuits from one pole and/or reliability.

But how do you KNOW there isn’t some 208Y120 there?

 

[mbrooke]

But how do you KNOW there isn’t some 208Y120 there?

Good point.

 

[hillbilly1]

Couple of questions.. how do you know both XFs are 480?

I see one circuit with bare wire, and two circuits with UG wire bundled overhead.

a triple circuit pole would take a lot of height to meet clearances.
I don’t know how far out in the boonies they are, but we used to have UG wires bundled like that for clearances in a downtown area until the city had a MAJOR infrastructure overhaul, it was then we buried the wire and got it out of the air While the street was torn to pieces.

I was about to say the same thing, I know of a big box flooring store in Chattanooga TN that has two pad mounts, one for 277/480, the other for 120/208. The problem is, or was, both gears are rated for 120/208! We were quoting putting in the correct gear. I think the inspector caught it, but allowed them to open anyway. Looked like it had been that way for quite a few years.

 

[mbrooke]

I was about to say the same thing, I know of a big box flooring store in Chattanooga TN that has two pad mounts, one for 277/480, the other for 120/208. The problem is, or was, both gears are rated for 120/208! We were quoting putting in the correct gear. I think the inspector caught it, but allowed them to open anyway. Looked like it had been that way for quite a few years.

Depending on the available fault current there may not be any hazard. 120/208Y gear is frequently used on 240/416Y systems over seas.

 

[mbrooke]

The rest (anything above and beyond the credit) is all on the customer. For all we know, the customer completely paid for the second transformer and install.

I think you mean customers - as there are many, many customers including Stop and Shops, Home Depots, officer buildings ect being fed with two transformers and two circuits.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I think you mean customers - as there are many, many customers including Stop and Shops, Home Depots, officer buildings ect being fed with two transformers and two circuits.

Sounds like two voltages.
stop and shops don’t need 277/480.
Home Depot heat and air system might like 277/480 better.

 

[mbrooke]

Sounds like two voltages.
stop and shops don’t need 277/480.
Home Depot heat and air system might like 277/480 better.

Stop and Shops absoutly need and are 480 volts.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Stop and Shops absoutly need and are 480 volts.

Not the ones we supply...

we have a Food Lion that’s 480