How low can it go?

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tonype

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Gas and electric meters in a "pit" made from stones...

In addition to the meter being hidden/too close to grade and too close to the gas meter, are there any other concerns with respect to electric (such as being buried by snow?)?
 

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tonype

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
maybe I read too much into gas requirements and applied them to electrical. Gas meter cannot be in a position where is can be covered with snow/ice.
 
tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
A meter is not required by the NEC, but is covered by POCO requirements, as its their cash register. Most POCOs will have very specific requirements in a customer service handbook, same with gas meters.
Our POCO does both gas and power, and they have a very well written handbook.
There is new language starting with the 2014 NEC and changed in the 2017 regarding working space in 110.26 for outdoor locations but again it does not apply, but the POCO may require working space.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
tonype said:
maybe I read too much into gas requirements and applied them to electrical. Gas meter cannot be in a position where is can be covered with snow/ice.
Click to expand...
Seems if they are outdoors and in the northern half of the country, they have some risk of being covered in snow or ice at some time.;)

I don't think it effects operation, if anything it may blanket the line and keep it warmer than above the snow in some instances.

Reading the meter - many are read wirelessly anymore so they don't need direct access at reading time. I think many gas companies used to have and maybe still carry over rules that their meters needed to be uncovered if buried in snow, but I think it was mostly so they can read them. Emergency shut off reasons makes some sense, as there usually is a valve at the meter. But they could also flag the thing somehow. Many cities around here have flags or other indicating devices installed on fire hydrants so they can be found if buried in snow. Even seen POCO pad mount equipment occasionally with such indicating devices installed on them where likely to be buried in snow.
 
G

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
kwired said:
Seems if they are outdoors and in the northern half of the country, they have some risk of being covered in snow or ice at some time.;)

I don't think it effects operation, if anything it may blanket the line and keep it warmer than above the snow in some instances.

Reading the meter - many are read wirelessly anymore so they don't need direct access at reading time. I think many gas companies used to have and maybe still carry over rules that their meters needed to be uncovered if buried in snow, but I think it was mostly so they can read them. Emergency shut off reasons makes some sense, as there usually is a valve at the meter. But they could also flag the thing somehow. Many cities around here have flags or other indicating devices installed on fire hydrants so they can be found if buried in snow. Even seen POCO pad mount equipment occasionally with such indicating devices installed on them where likely to be buried in snow.
Click to expand...

As described in the thread on the recent gas distribution disaster, if the vent on the gas meter is totally blocked by ice (snow is porous) the pressure regulator that is usually adjacent to the meter will not be able to regulate properly. The meter vent should be directed downward and is not likely to be blocked by falling or accumulating snow or sleet, but might end up blocked by melting/refreezing snow if it is below ground level. The regulator would also not be at all happy if the vent is underwater.

In the OP's photo it looks like the regulator vent is above ground level even though the bottom of the meter is not. (Looking at the second angle photo I am not so sure of that....)
 
MasterTheNEC

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
tom baker said:
A meter is not required by the NEC, but is covered by POCO requirements, as its their cash register. Most POCOs will have very specific requirements in a customer service handbook, same with gas meters.
Our POCO does both gas and power, and they have a very well written handbook.
There is new language starting with the 2014 NEC and changed in the 2017 regarding working space in 110.26 for outdoor locations but again it does not apply, but the POCO may require working space.
Click to expand...
Greetings Mr.Baker,

Being that "Meter Socket Enclosures" are covered and elaborated on in Article 312 is your opinion that the meter enclosure is not considered "Electrical Equipment" as expressed in 110.26?

While the "likely" portion of 110.26(A) is always debated, if an individual in so much as pulls the meter would that not be considered servicing or possibly maintenance with no assured likelihood of prior disconnection? Isn't the purpose of the NEC to safeguard persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity?

Looking forward to your thoughts on the subject specifically. The reason I present, as you accurately stated, the vast majority of the Utilities (POCO) regurgitate the various aspects of the NEC for their publications and it seems their belief is it does apply since they always reference the NEC and that specific section.

Attached is an image from the Domimion Blue Book and the same is found in most others with aforementioned references to 110.26.

So I was interested in your thoughts on the subject. Thanks in advance for freely expressed opinions my friend.
6af66ce0b25280660439455e0bc0a989.jpg


Paul W. Abernathy
Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
CMP #5 and #17
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
tonype said:
Gas and electric meters in a "pit" made from stones...

In addition to the meter being hidden/too close to grade and too close to the gas meter, are there any other concerns with respect to electric (such as being buried by snow?)?
Click to expand...

Around here, it is fairly typical for the gas meter to be that close to the ground. Electric meters are usually higher, but not always.

It is really up to the utility to decide if the mounting is appropriate IMO as the electric meter is typically outside the scope of the NEC as is the gas meter.
 
D

david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
if it can be concluded that the meter enclosure falls outside the scope of the NEC than there is no requirement to bond the meter enclosure.

In this part of PA. the meter enclosure is not owned or maintained by the utility, the utility owns the meter and the right to seal and by state regulation can enforces a fine or removal of the meter but not the meter enclosure if evidence of tampering is discovered.
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
I agree that that's not good practice. Bad enough that meter enclosures eventually rot out, being at ground level can't be good. They are only "rain-tight" from the top.

It looks like it wasn't always that way, when you leave it up to landscapers that's what can happen. Surprised everything wasn't covered with mulch.

-Hal
 
romex jockey

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Perhaps 110.26 A 3 ex2 then>

Exception No. 2: Meters that are installed in meter sockets shall be
permitted to extend beyond the other equipment. The meter socket shall
be required to follow the rules of this section
Click to expand...
.

~RJ~
 
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