How much to bid residential per opening?

[Finite10]

There have been threads about bidding houses per sq foot, and per linear foot of NM-B.
I have almost replied to 3 or 4 threads about bidding residential, so thought I'd just post one here;

When I did residential, the EC bid per opening.

Tougher devices were double; chime kit, smoke detector, disposal, cut-ins, can (RI can extra), high entry lights, tc.

The EC would add a surcharge to builders that used the house for storage and full of scrap. He cut the rate for builders who had the house ready, empty, and swept before we arrived.

What are you bidding per opening? What are you doing about difficult openings?

 

[480sparky]

Take an ordinary, run of the mill recep, say, in a living room.

I figure in the box, the device, the cover, 18' of 14-2, 50? for staples & wire nuts, and 8% of the cost of a breaker. That's my material.

Labor is calculated based on historical data. I keep a spreadsheet with MY labor units, some some off-the-shelf quesstimate, for rough-in (layout, mounting boxes, drilling, pulling, stuffing, stapling, make-up) and trim (install device & cover, testing).

That's how I determine the opening price for that receptacle. Repeat the process for switches, GFCIs, lights, smokes, fans, appliances, etc.

Not sure what you mean by 'difficult' openings.

 

[Finite10]

By difficult openings I meant the tougher openings to wire that I listed before that, chime kit, cans, etc.
The EC had a chart, pre Excel, that we used after the house was done to count openings. He had a price per opening of, say - $10 per opening for one builder, and $12 for a sloppy builder. He had too many houses, vans, and crews to measure and calculate much.

It was long ago....

 

[ptonsparky]

I haven't been doing a lot of new residential for several years. More money in other work. Custom homes, very few spec homes even then.

My per opening price is the same for any 15-20 120v branch circuit, with the exception of ceiling fan openings which are double. Chimes were considered normal. Range, dryer, WH, A/C had a flat basic fee + a per foot adder and are separte from per opening charge. Recessed cans, bath fans, I supply along with the trim so a bit of markup on them helped offset the labor. SE was a different charge.

I can usually get a cad drawing of the floor plan to which I then add an Electrical Plan. A home with multiple 4 ways can add quickly to your costs. I rarely had a room that couldn't be worked from an 8' ladder. Figure out what you have into it for parts, labor, overhead and profit. Divide by your total and you have your price per opening. Having a print helps at walk through with the owners prior to roughin. Now is when extras are added. Doesn't matter if you add a switch next to another, the price for that opening is the same.

Keep track of how you did and adjust your price on the next as needed. I never lost money, just worked for less, but doing several at less is PPP.

I bid one home as a simple wood construction. When we showed up on the job it had doubled in size, steel framed, with metal studs. Went from bid to T&M in a couple heartbeats. It got interesting when the sheetrock ceiling went up first, then the interior walls.

 

[480sparky]

By difficult openings I meant the tougher openings to wire that I listed before that, chime kit, cans, etc.
The EC had a chart, pre Excel, that we used after the house was done to count openings. He had a price per opening of, say - $10 per opening for one builder, and $12 for a sloppy builder. He had too many houses, vans, and crews to measure and calculate much.

It was long ago....

I have things like the doorbell, garage door opener buttons & sensors, telephone, cable/satellite, various services, etc. in this spreadsheet.

I have one cell in my spreadsheet with my hourly rate. That's used to calculate the labor for the job. I can change that one cell to accomodate neat builders who are well organized as opposed to sloppy ones who aren't. I also have a cell where I can add in 'extras' such as high ceilings & such.

 

[tryinghard]

...What are you bidding per opening? What are you doing about difficult openings?

I recommend pricing per device not opening in that the assemblies should be literal. Build assemblies like length of supply cable, box, device, and plate - multi gang example below:
1-15A $$$3 Combo Assembly

--1-15A 3G Nail On Assembly
--1-Box
--15-14/2 Cable
--2-Staple
--4-Tan Wire Nut
--2-15A $ Rough In Assembly
--25-14/2 Cable (each total 50)
--3-Staple (each total 6)
--2-Tan Wire Nut (each total 4)
--1-15A $3 Rough In Assembly
--40-14/3 Cable
--25-14/2 Cable
--2-Staple
--4-Tan Wire Nut
--2-$ SP Switch Device
--1-$3 3-Way Switch Device
--1-3 Gang White Switch Plate

Lighting, smoke detectors?outlets follow similar method with supply cable, box... The hardest part is building your assemblies but once done take-offs are fast and accurate. You can use Excel spreadsheet or estimating software with this method and you can also use tally sheets but this could be too much to manage. Whatever method you use track it for outcome and modify accordingly this is most critical to success.

 

[MikeS]

What about design fees? How do you all handle that? I'm often given just a scale floor plan, with a basic list of needs and am left to my own devices to draw up the electrical plan. That's time. I've toyed with an hourly fee, a flat design fee, or an "enhanced" labor rate that includes planning, haven't settled on a best way yet....

 

[tryinghard]

What about design fees? How do you all handle that? I'm often given just a scale floor plan, with a basic list of needs and am left to my own devices to draw up the electrical plan. That's time. I've toyed with an hourly fee, a flat design fee, or an "enhanced" labor rate that includes planning, haven't settled on a best way yet....

You can offer design build this way but most do not see or understand the need so you usually have to sell this ahead of bidding, we found most success at the architect home design level rather than contractor developer (most success = 6 to 9 over 3 years woo-hoo) and we no longer do these. Offer the full electrical design with correct drawings, material take-offs, submittals, critical phase time line, the full estimate broke out, and the client should be integral answering and guiding to the accepted outcome. I suggest flat rate near or below your average time cost (10hrs x $xx.xx) because this is a method of advertising and investing for your company you may even offer this value credited back if contracted to provide the installation, this is what we did but there were a few that hired us knowing we weren?t going to install. I don?t know if this is the best way but it is a way it only works if it sells. I don?t know if there is a market for residential electrical design but again I think if it exists it?s at the architect or home designer level, this would be a niche for your company.

One way of competitive bidding residential is to give two prices 1) Plans & Specs listing general descriptions w/qty?s of items and exclusions & 2) Additional items w/qty?s for an NEC Plans & Specs, this will give them a comparable of the home as drawn and required.

 

[Finite10]

Thanks guys

Thanks guys

I have Excel, but will need to up my game. Excel is king. Also, I have AutoCAD but need a shapes library I guess.

The learning curve as I dial in prices looks risky - I'd like to mitigate that whether Commercial, Industrial, or Resi.

ptonsparky's method looks the closest to my old boss'. I think they did too many tract homes to itemize -back in the late 70', early 80's. Maybe I'll give him a call, he was a good guy (cheap, but a good guy)