Am replacing the Line and Load side of the SE Cable. Residence has an "OLD" Murray 9600 Meter Socket (probably from around 1940's-50's). Can anyone tell me how the Meter is removed? Pepco says they have to disconnect at the pole. I've never run into that situation before. Any ideas?
How old is this Meter Socket?
- Thread starter EXECON
- Start date
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jwnagy
Member
- Location
- Damascus, Maryland
You can call jeff 
jwnagy
Member
- Location
- Damascus, Maryland
Here a couple of photos for the meter socket in question. What EXECON and myself would like to know is if this meter can be pulled. It's been 32 years since I have seen a meter socket like this and I can't remember if or how the socket is removed.
Jeff
Jeff
mtfallsmikey
Senior Member
Maybe that's what caused that house fire in the district...check out the thread I just started in the Safety forum...
jwnagy
Member
- Location
- Damascus, Maryland
The last one I saw like this actually had an oak insulator inside the lower half of the enclosure.
I have seen them in this area and as I recall the meter is "hard wired" to the terminals you see.
Question: If you are going to replace line and load cables why not go ahead and replace the "weak link in the chain" ?
Question: If you are going to replace line and load cables why not go ahead and replace the "weak link in the chain" ?
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I work in an area where the service entrance conductors are installed in pipe, but I run into this unit from time to time. Here, the splice box below the meter (below, not behind) is part of the "meter" that was supplied by the power company when originally installed by the electrician. The meter and junction box are a single assembly. The meter movement was not designed to be removed in the field by anyone other than the power company meter department, if at all.
The nature of your question confuses me, though. From your OP, it sounds like you are replacing the line and load side SE cable . . . if so, don't you simply cut the conductors at the drip loop? Or is that not allowed in your area?
Also, in my area, it would be hard to get permission to reuse the old meter assembly even on a repair.
dhalleron
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
- Occupation
- Master Electrician/Senior Fire Alarm Technician
I spent my first summer doing electric work in the early 1980's replacing these with a new 100 amp services on a bunch of old houses. We called it a rewire back then, but all we really did was upgrade the service and split up some circuits, install GFCIs where required and replace all plugs, switches and light fixtures.
If the meter can be pulled from a socket I never saw it come out. We just cut the wires at the drip loop and disconnected the wires from the bottom of the meter. We would tie it up as a temporary and wire in into the new meter socket for the POCO to replace after the inspection.
If the meter can be pulled from a socket I never saw it come out. We just cut the wires at the drip loop and disconnected the wires from the bottom of the meter. We would tie it up as a temporary and wire in into the new meter socket for the POCO to replace after the inspection.
The "glass" is removable by giving it about an 1/8 turn. Then you need tools to remove the meter. It was for the POCO to do adjustments. The "junction box" below the meter is for the line and load to be connected to the meter terminals. The neutral was typically bolted to the box. I did not see a lug.
I've seen these before but not recently.
My advice: Install a new meter socket. POCO will need to supply new meter.
I've seen these before but not recently.
My advice: Install a new meter socket. POCO will need to supply new meter.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
As others have mentioned you should not do this live. Cut off the SE cable at the point where the triplex hits the house so you're safe. There is a locking tab somewhere just above the terminals and you'll have to loosen that and move it in order to get the meter assembly out. After you find and loosen that you'll have to loosen the 4 screws at the bottom of the assembly in order to get the SE wires out. Once you do that you should be able to lift the assembly out. Make sure you keep everything in tact because you'll need the entire assembly for the next part.
We have meter adaptors here that we get from our POCO's. Basically it's a back plate with blades that plug right into the jaws of a new meter enclosure. The old meter assembly just hooks onto a screw at the top of the adaptor. There are 4 wires hanging out of the bottom of the adaptor. They are line and load for each phase. Make sure you open the back of the adaptor to view it or meter out wire to blade before you plug it into the new enclosure (I believe line 1 and 2 are on the left and the loads for 1 and 2 are on the right.) You'll then have to land those wires onto the old meter assembly terminal block and tape up the front to avoid any possible shock hazard.
Here are some photos of what I'm talking about :
Hope this helps.
We have meter adaptors here that we get from our POCO's. Basically it's a back plate with blades that plug right into the jaws of a new meter enclosure. The old meter assembly just hooks onto a screw at the top of the adaptor. There are 4 wires hanging out of the bottom of the adaptor. They are line and load for each phase. Make sure you open the back of the adaptor to view it or meter out wire to blade before you plug it into the new enclosure (I believe line 1 and 2 are on the left and the loads for 1 and 2 are on the right.) You'll then have to land those wires onto the old meter assembly terminal block and tape up the front to avoid any possible shock hazard.
Here are some photos of what I'm talking about :
Hope this helps.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
If poco allows cut it off at the weatherhead and install a new service, meter and all. I bet that meter is only rated 100 amp max anyway.
Just to clarify, I AM replacing the Meter Socket, but I am used to bugging the SE Cables at the meter socket AFTER the meter was pulled. When POCO told me they wouldn't pull the meter, they never said why. Didn't set well with me!
I will look at the suggestions and go from there. Thanks to all for the help!
ExeCon
I will look at the suggestions and go from there. Thanks to all for the help!
ExeCon
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Never saw one of those before. Learn something every day.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I have replaced many of those, and as was said, most POCO's will require the whole meter base changed, at least here they do if any upgrade has been done, those old meters are only 15 amp 240 volt, some are 15 amp 120 volt, I have seen these in a 30 amp 240 volt flavor also but the way they mount is all the same, most have slide bars right above where the line and load connections are, this was how the utility would disconnect them when non-payment happened, but please beware, all insulated tools are required with them, also the 4 setscrews just below the meter is what disconnects the meter base conductors but they will be hot if the slide bars are still down, after power is removed loosing these will allow the meter to slide up if it is the type on a hanger and come right out, some of these did have a meter socket behind it that accepted a regular meter, when we did a service upgrade we would turn off the power at the weather head, and pull the meter out, and re-install it in the new can.
The ones that just had wires coming out of them we would tie them back in at the weather head and use meter jumpers and a meter blank in the new meter and the POCO would reconnect the drop and install the new meter and put our jumpers and meter blank on top of the meter for us to pick up.
Just remember a meter is the POCO's cash register and some do not like them to be messed with or seals cut or taken apart.
I think they call them A-Base meters around here
The ones that just had wires coming out of them we would tie them back in at the weather head and use meter jumpers and a meter blank in the new meter and the POCO would reconnect the drop and install the new meter and put our jumpers and meter blank on top of the meter for us to pick up.
Just remember a meter is the POCO's cash register and some do not like them to be messed with or seals cut or taken apart.
I think they call them A-Base meters around here
frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
I have ran into quite few A Based meter socket before in both Wisconsin and France { they will have slighty diffrent format but simauir }
Majorty of the A framers are not really removeable unless you unhook the line and load supply which it can get spooky espcally the connection screw or lug screw are corroded.
I have see it in both single and triphase verison but three phase verison will get ya a headache if not watching the line and load connections.
I know my POCO in wisconsin and in France they want to get rid of them when you get there.
Most A framers are rated for 60 amp max { very rare to see if you get more than 100 amp the most }
Merci.
Marc
Majorty of the A framers are not really removeable unless you unhook the line and load supply which it can get spooky espcally the connection screw or lug screw are corroded.
I have see it in both single and triphase verison but three phase verison will get ya a headache if not watching the line and load connections.
I know my POCO in wisconsin and in France they want to get rid of them when you get there.
Most A framers are rated for 60 amp max { very rare to see if you get more than 100 amp the most }
Merci.
Marc
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I haven't worked on one of these for at least 20 years, but they still exist around here in really rural areas. PECO had both hardwired versions and tabbed versions. IIRC, the hard wired versions were max 60A meters while the tabbed versions could go up to 150A (usually an indoor meter with fused disconnect). We called them "banjo" type meter sockets and you definitely don't want to work on them live because they're usually corroded beyond repair. I saved a few of the really old indoor banjo socket disconnects I replaced back in the 80s and I can try and get some photos once I dig them out of storage.
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Ok, for anyone else like me with a thing for old switch gear, here goes.
The first is a 60A indoor metered disconnect with two main fuses made by Palmer. The top flips to accommodate different meter styles. It had a hardwired banjo meter when I ripped it out which is why I couldn't keep the meter with it. It is a solid piece of gear with complete lock-out capabilities. The fuses can't be opened without shutting off power (slide out mechanism) and the front can be locked and sealed by the POCO. The fuses in this one are pulled forward and disconnected when you lower the knife switch.
The second is a much bigger and heavier American metered disconnect (probably weighs ~50 lbs). It has two 60A 240V switches - one for the general loads and second for range. All copper, porcelain and steel and must have cost a bundle when it was new. The banjo socket on this one is made by Anchor and is compatible with modern meters. The line side is lockable by the POCO and the fuse housing is lockable as well.
The first is a 60A indoor metered disconnect with two main fuses made by Palmer. The top flips to accommodate different meter styles. It had a hardwired banjo meter when I ripped it out which is why I couldn't keep the meter with it. It is a solid piece of gear with complete lock-out capabilities. The fuses can't be opened without shutting off power (slide out mechanism) and the front can be locked and sealed by the POCO. The fuses in this one are pulled forward and disconnected when you lower the knife switch.
The second is a much bigger and heavier American metered disconnect (probably weighs ~50 lbs). It has two 60A 240V switches - one for the general loads and second for range. All copper, porcelain and steel and must have cost a bundle when it was new. The banjo socket on this one is made by Anchor and is compatible with modern meters. The line side is lockable by the POCO and the fuse housing is lockable as well.
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