How safe is this?

[jim mccloy]

I know an electrician (he's an old timer) who told me about a certain technique he uses to bring power to a homeowner when doing a service changeout. He does this whenever he runs into overtime and it's too late in the day to get a reconnect. What he does..if I've understood him correctly, is he's got a fuse box made up with a 100 amp breaker and what he does is he gets up on the roof or on a ladder and skins just 1 line of the service drop and then, in his own words, goes to ground and then basically connects to the weather head and apparently jumps the meter socket somehow, thereby bringing only 120 volts into the new panel.

Now, number one, common sense tells me that this isn't to safe...due to obvious factors. I asked him if he at least uses hot gloves. He said "no, I can get up there and hold that wire all day and nothing's going to happen, but don't touch anything else" he says.

Number two, wouldn't the poco have an issue with this?

I guess I just wanted to throw this out and see what kind of replies I get...I'm not thinking of doing this for myself or anything...unless this is an acceptable method of coarse.

Jim.

 

[charlie]

Re: How safe is this?

Most power companies don't have a problem with running off meter for a very short period of time if it after hours and the trouble department/service connection department is notified immediately. You have to follow OSHA rules and be qualified to do the work (the same as power company employees). Most electricians are not qualified and should not be doing this work. Check with your local OSHA rep and the local electric utility to see if you can do it in your area. Ya gotta have two yeses (is that a word?) before you can do the work.

I made a statement some time ago that still stands, most electricians are not qualified to do outside line work and most linemen are not qualified to do inside electrical work (even though both feel like they can do the other at times).

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: How safe is this?

Hmmm... two yeses... yea, I think that can be a word.

 

[bennie]

Re: How safe is this?

I have temporarily connected power for convenience of the customer. I always connected the three wire(240).

There are two events that can happen with only two wires (120).

If both buses are connected together the neutral may become overloaded.

If only one bus is energized and there is a 240 volt well pump, when the pump switch closes, the pump motor can become connected in series with a 120 volt motor driven appliance. The voltage drop on the well pump, (which will be stalled), can burn out the 120 volt motor.

I know of a house fire created by this situation, the dishwasher motor ignited the wood studs.

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: How safe is this?

So, as long as it's done in a safe manner and with careful consideration for local poco rules, it's ok?

What about the meter socket? I've heard how some jump a meter socket...but what's a safe way to do it? Or maybe you can temporarily supply a homeowner with power without having to jump the meter--wich way is the best way?

Jim.

 

[bennie]

Re: How safe is this?

I would not connect the service unless all three wires are made up.

I want to acknowledge reading the remarks by Charlie the utility guy. I agree completely about lineman and wireman.

My home union local was a joint local, inside and outside wireman. I have some experience with line and switching station work. There was combination classifications at one time. I had both, plus cable splicing.

When I read the common statement that the NESC procedures are not as safe as the NEC , I know someone who has never read the NESC. I have copies back to 1981.

 

[bennie]

Re: How safe is this?

Jim: The only safe way to jumper the meter sockets is to be sure the power is off.
There is insulated links made specifically for bussing through a meter socket. The utility meter man will have these, but it would be hard to get them for yourself. I once had a set. The links could be inserted and a glass cover installed for safety. I also had an old meter on my service truck.

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: How safe is this?

Must be nice to have that kind of equipment Bennie. Makes things a whole lot easier. I didn't think it would be a good idea to jumper a meter socket and leave it laid bare for any one to just reach out and touch it.

But I also have a question concerning what that electrician told me when he said that he could "hold on to that wire all day and nothing's gonna happen, just don't touch anything else". I understand that you'd be insulated while your standing on a wooden structure, but what would happen if say for instance that your working on a brick home and there's a shed roof off of it and your standing on it and let's say your holding one line of the service drop and your trying to skin back insulation on the lines in order to connect them for temporary power---and you accidentally touch the brick? The brick is in contact with the earth by way of the foundation...so you'd get shocked right?

Jim.

 

[bennie]

Re: How safe is this?

Jim: The reason a bird does not get electrocuted when sitting on a power line is because nature gave then short legs.

I know an old journeyman who can splice 480 volts live bare handed. He only has to lift one leg off the ground.

I hope the brick is not conductive.

The old saying applies; "Don't work live conductors or systems". Turn the power off.
Macho men are history or dead.

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: How safe is this?

Okay...Bennie, maybe I did ask a dumb question, or I'm reading too much into things,I understand why a bird doesn't get shocked while perched upon a high voltage line..it's at the same potential and unless the bird was to reach over and suck up an insect off of the pole, effectively grounding itself out, it could sit there all day and no harm would come to it.

I think your pulling MY leg about that guy.
:roll:

Ok, I guess this is where my lack of experience REALLY shows. We always say that if you come into contact with an ungrounded conductor and a grounded object or surface at the same time...basically you get fried. A grounded surface can be concrete right? I've heard of people getting electrocuted before in this manner...just happened in my area at a concert in an ampitheater.

Now as far as brick goes...it's made up of earth materials, that are basically setting on a foundation in contact with the earth...why is that not grounded.



If I've said something really stupid...just tell me that brick is not conductive and I'll never mention it again.

Jim.

 

[bennie]

Re: How safe is this?

Jim: I just now put a high pot across a concrete brick. I read infinity. No current flow. This may not be the case with all brick material.

If you pull the leg of my friend, you will only be able to pull one, the other is on some hill in Korea.

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: How safe is this?

Awe...ROFLMAO! Bennie, your a cool guy!

 

[hbiss]

Re: How safe is this?

Yeah, I can relate to this. I used to work for a guy that would jump the meter socket with scraps of old wire. He'd just jam them in the jaws with a screwdriver. Other times he wanted to use the old meter which didn't fit the new socket. He would hang the old socket near the new one with some old wire then do the jam the wire in the jaws trick to put the old meter on line. He would usually cover the whole thing with a plastic garbage bag to "protect it".

Where we are we have been required for the past few years to make the final connection to the hot service drop for service change outs. The utility company doesn't want to bother anymore, they'll even give you the bugs. No big deal, use common sense, watch what you are doing and use a fiberglass ladder or bucket truck.

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: How safe is this?

I understand, it's just that here in western PA with Allegheny power THEY do the final reconnect. We are not allowed to pull meters or disconnect or anything of the like.

I got into some trouble with time on my last service changeout. I was told by the poco that they had a second shift and the latest I could get a reconnect was 7:00 in the evening. I would have had plenty of time...they never came out to reconnect. The inspector came at about 1:00 in the afternoon and I was even standing there when he called it in.

I just wondered if there was a viable way to provide temporary power to a customer in that kind of situation. Other than using a portable generator.

Jim.

 

[cm]

Re: How safe is this?

Jim allegheny power use to give you 3 days to have a job inspected,then they started requiring an inspection before they hook it back up.So you wait for an disconnection ,then wait for an inspection ,then wait to hook it back up,it takes longer to wait on everybody than do the job.The beuaracy is terrible. I use to do 2 revamps with a good helper a day now I have a hard time getting one. With no licensing in pa and anyone being able to call themselves an electrician I cant blame them for this policy.SO unfortinatley you have to pass the cost on to your customer for the incompitent people in the business also I would tell your customer you have no controll over thease people and you are not running an ambulance service.ps make sure to call fairmont wva to dispatch the local service center :roll: after its inspected with the wr #inspectors name and cic#

[ June 22, 2003, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: cm ]

 

[jim mccloy]

Re: How safe is this?

CM: I hear you on the waiting game with the power company.

not sure what you are saying about the WR# and cic# and inspectors name. My inspector takes care of everything concerning calling in the inspection...I have absolutely nothing to do with that process.

The no license requirment in PA is looking like it will change in the near future. There are several bills pending as to whether a person will have to be a licenced to perform electrical work as an electrical contractor. My inspector told me that that's probably the best thing that can happen to us.

Jim.