how to calculate load for multiple EV chargers

[jdping2]

Good morning all, I have a customer that have purchased 10 electric "step vans" they look like the large UPS trucks and are all electric. Each charger ( per manufaturer) will require an 80 amp 2 pole 120/208 single phase breaker, total max load per charger is 64 amps. The customer has an available 600 amp distribution breaker in existing switchgear 120/208 3 phase , that has been designated for all of the EV chargers. I will be installing a 600 amp 120/208 distribution panel and load it up with 2 pole 80 amp breakers for the new load as well as future. All step vans will charge at off hours ( 7 pm 5 am. ) - will a 600 amp 120/208 dist. panel accept the new load? If so, what is the max amount of chargers I can feed from a 600 amp dist panel? I have no clue how to calc the load ....


Respectfully

John D

 

[winnie]

The easiest approximation is to simply take the VA of your available circuit and divide by the VA of your chargers.

Since the load is long duration, you need to treat it as a 'continuous' load and limit yourself to 80% of the supply circuit rating.

Thus: each charger is a 64A*208V = 13312 VA

Your supply circuit is 600*208*sqrt(3)*0.8 = 172928 VA (sqrt 3 because it is 3 phase, 0.8 because it is continuous loading)

So the circuit can support 13 chargers.

Now this is an approximation, in particular assumes a balanced 3 phase load. The closest number of 3 phase balanced chargers is 12, so to be safe I'd say that was the limit.

-Jonathan

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't understand how the grid is going to be able to keep up with this type of added loads. 600 amps 3 phase for 10 vehicles. What kind of load will we see when places like ups go all electric? 1,000,000 amps hahaha

 

[winnie]

If people expect to charge EVs anytime and anywhere they want to, then the grid won't take it.

If people expect to charge EVs during off peak hours or when there is surplus available capacity, then these loads will _improve_ grid function.

The devil is in the details.

-Jonathan

 

[retirede]

If people expect to charge EVs anytime and anywhere they want to, then the grid won't take it.

If people expect to charge EVs during off peak hours or when there is surplus available capacity, then these loads will _improve_ grid function.

The devil is in the details.

-Jonathan

And utility rate structures will evolve to incentivize off-peak charging. In many locales, they already are.

 

[jaggedben]

I don't understand how the grid is going to be able to keep up with this type of added loads. 600 amps 3 phase for 10 vehicles. What kind of load will we see when places like ups go all electric? 1,000,000 amps hahaha

Surely you are not talking about a single UPS facility that has sixteen thousand vehicles or something like that. I'm not sure I get your point exactly. I mean, on average (not peak) US grids power something like the equivalent of 2 billion amps at 208V single phase.

I'm reminded of...

 

[jdping2]

The easiest approximation is to simply take the VA of your available circuit and divide by the VA of your chargers.

Since the load is long duration, you need to treat it as a 'continuous' load and limit yourself to 80% of the supply circuit rating.

Thus: each charger is a 64A*208V = 13312 VA

Your supply circuit is 600*208*sqrt(3)*0.8 = 172928 VA (sqrt 3 because it is 3 phase, 0.8 because it is continuous loading)

So the circuit can support 13 chargers.

Now this is an approximation, in particular assumes a balanced 3 phase load. The closest number of 3 phase balanced chargers is 12, so to be safe I'd say that was the limit.

-Jonathan

Jonathan,
Thank you for taking the time to respond and I greatly appreciate the fact that you ran the calculations as well. I will not forget your generousity

Much respect
John

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

You need to add up the maximum amps each charger will use. Since each charger needs 64 amps, and you have 10 chargers, you multiply 64 by 10, which equals 640 amps. But the total shouldn't exceed the capacity of the distribution panel, which is 600 amps. So, you can't power all 10 chargers at once with a 600 amp panel. To figure out how many chargers you can feed, divide 600 (the panel's capacity) by 64 (the amps each charger needs), which equals about 9. So, you can power up to 9 chargers simultaneously with the 600 amp panel.

He is using three phase. The chargers are single phase.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I don't understand how the grid is going to be able to keep up with this type of added loads. 600 amps 3 phase for 10 vehicles. What kind of load will we see when places like ups go all electric? 1,000,000 amps hahaha

It won't unless the utility has the ability to control the the time and amount of current that the EV charger will draw. They will also want you to use a bi-directional changer so they can use your car as an energy storage system to help with peak demand.

 

[dvp]

The easiest approximation is to simply take the VA of your available circuit and divide by the VA of your chargers.

Since the load is long duration, you need to treat it as a 'continuous' load and limit yourself to 80% of the supply circuit rating.

Thus: each charger is a 64A*208V = 13312 VA

Your supply circuit is 600*208*sqrt(3)*0.8 = 172928 VA (sqrt 3 because it is 3 phase, 0.8 because it is continuous loading)

So the circuit can support 13 chargers.

Now this is an approximation, in particular assumes a balanced 3 phase load. The closest number of 3 phase balanced chargers is 12, so to be safe I'd say that was the limit.

-Jonathan

I live in a country where the system is 230/400 and we get electrical power as the product of single-phase voltage and current.
If that charger is single-phase its electrical power should be 64A * 120V = 7.68 kVA, not 13.312 kVA.
Am I wrong?

 

[winnie]

I live in a country where the system is 230/400 and we get electrical power as the product of single-phase voltage and current.
If that charger is single-phase its electrical power should be 64A * 120V = 7.68 kVA, not 13.312 kVA.
Am I wrong?

As used in the US, the term single phase is applied to any load connected to two of the supply terminals either L-L or L-N.

In the case of the chargers being discussed here, they are connected L-L but to only 2 of the 3 phases. Thus the chargers are supplied with 208V, not 120V.

In Serbia, do you either use 230V L-N or 400V three phase, and never just 2 terminals of a 400V supply?

-Jonathan

 

[dvp]

As used in the US, the term single phase is applied to any load connected to two of the supply terminals either L-L or L-N.

In the case of the chargers being discussed here, they are connected L-L but to only 2 of the 3 phases. Thus the chargers are supplied with 208V, not 120V.

In Serbia, do you either use 230V L-N or 400V three phase, and never just 2 terminals of a 400V supply?

-Jonathan

In 99% of cases 1-phase or 3-phase power supply is used.
Very rarely only in some industrial applications 2-phase power supply is used.

Thanks for the useful comment

 

[Knightryder12]

Good morning all, I have a customer that have purchased 10 electric "step vans" they look like the large UPS trucks and are all electric. Each charger ( per manufaturer) will require an 80 amp 2 pole 120/208 single phase breaker, total max load per charger is 64 amps. The customer has an available 600 amp distribution breaker in existing switchgear 120/208 3 phase , that has been designated for all of the EV chargers. I will be installing a 600 amp 120/208 distribution panel and load it up with 2 pole 80 amp breakers for the new load as well as future. All step vans will charge at off hours ( 7 pm 5 am. ) - will a 600 amp 120/208 dist. panel accept the new load? If so, what is the max amount of chargers I can feed from a 600 amp dist panel? I have no clue how to calc the load ....


Respectfully

John D

By my calcs, you can get 12 of them in a 600amp, 120/208v, 3 phase service.

 

[gene6]

Good morning all, I have a customer that have purchased 10 electric "step vans" they look like the large UPS trucks and are all electric. Each charger ( per manufaturer) will require an 80 amp 2 pole 120/208 single phase breaker

There were some charging sites put in around here that were designed with just one 3 pole breaker to supply 6 chargers using outside feeder tap rules, as each charger had its own OCPD in the pedestal.
They had the utility put in a special new 240 padmount 3 phase service for that site, and none of the chargers got a neutral, just a ground and two hots to each.