How to use two 30 amp receptacles and get 50 amps

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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I really don't think a company as large as Hubble would produce a none listed product
I notice on some of the other pages of the broader catalog link that some products are noted as "Not UL/CSA listed"... so what does that mean for ones that have no note at all ???
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Consider this, lets say the two outlets it is plugged into are from seperate transformers, that will result in current flow over the EGCs
At perhaps half the resistance of a single egc. ;)

I assume you are talking of fault current, eh?

If for some reason the EGC's weren't interconnected at the source end, that would definitely be a violation... but at the same time, any ground fault will attempt to return to it's source on any available path, the intended purpose of EGC's... not limited to just the one run with the circuit conductors.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I notice on some of the other pages of the broader catalog link that some products are noted as "Not UL/CSA listed"... so what does that mean for ones that have no note at all ???

Who's catalog? Hubbell's or one of their distributor's that may sell other brands?

I am not trying to be antagonistic. If Hubbell is selling products that require a listing and not getting one, I would like to know it. If the adapter in question is in that category, I would like to know that as well.

Because we all know that adapters of this sort are required to be listed, correct?

Or not?
 

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I really don't think a company as large as Hubble would produce a none listed product

Who's catalog? Hubbell's or one of their distributor's that may sell other brands?

I am not trying to be antagonistic. If Hubbell is selling products that require a listing and not getting one, I would like to know it. If the adapter in question is in that category, I would like to know that as well.

Because we all know that adapters of this sort are required to be listed, correct?

Or not?

The PVC male adapter HBL6085 is not UL listed per Hubble. Not the device in question, but still a component required to be listed per the NEC 352.6, and isn't.
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
I guess the question is whether or not this device is part of the wiring system. If not, it is not an outlet and therefore cannot have a portion defined as a receptacle.

Also, if the device is physically in the watercraft it is exempt under 90.2(B)(1)

The device is not physically in the watercraft, it is hanging from the pedestal in open air and it supplies power to the boat. It is also fed from 2 (not 1) branch circuits with separate over current devices (breakers) that do not have handle ties.

This is a useful item. It can get someone power for a short term need. Because people have seen these, they don't understand why I can't rewire their pedestal from 2 30-amp receptacles to 1 50-amp receptacle. They give me the deer in the headlight look when I explain that the 50-amp receptacle requires more than 3 times the power of one 30-amp receptacle. They usually reply something like "Well I have this cord that combines them". :mad: I really hate that contraption.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Yeah, but it's not the cords that are in question. It's the device. This is not just a simple adapter. It is an electronic device.

I guess the question is whether or not this device is part of the wiring system. If not, it is not an outlet and therefore cannot have a portion defined as a receptacle.

Also, if the device is physically in the watercraft it is exempt under 90.2(B)(1)
NEC ends at the receptacle... anything plugged into the receptacle is considered for the purpose of watercraft shore power.... it does not have to be technically in the watercraft, no more than the receptacle has to be in the watercraft.
 

LawnGuyLandSparky

Senior Member
Marinas / Docks are the PERFECT place to implement RING MAINS as a new code standard in the United States. Think 4-8 slips and one 100a 240v circuit ring main wired with #6 awg!

Any boat could pull up to 100a @ 240v for less than the cost to provide 4 slips with 30a 120v!
 

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
NEC ends at the receptacle...
Reference?

anything plugged into the receptacle is considered for the purpose of watercraft shore power.... it does not have to be technically in the watercraft, no more than the receptacle has to be in the watercraft.

Doesn't it though?

Section 90.2(B) states that "Installations in ships, watercraft other than . . ." are Not Covered.

Section 90.2(A) states that "This Code covers the installation of electrical conductors, equipment . . . and raceways for the following:
(1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures. . . and floating buildings."

How do we decide if this 'no-mans' land' is governed by NFPA70 or the CFR or other?
 
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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Interestingly I do not see any claim that it is listed.

http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/marine/pdf/YQAdapters.pdf

That's why I worded my post like I did.

I did take some time to try to find a listing, specifically a UL listing, but could not. That does not mean that it isn't listed.

And I was careful not to say it was not listed only that I could not find it. Even when I enlarged the catalog photos I could not find a UL mark on the labels.






I really don't think a company as large as Hubble would produce a none listed product

There is not doubt in my mind that Hubbell and all other manufactures have products without listings.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The wiring under NEC purview is not electrically connected at both ends. There is no electrical joining at the load end of the NEC wiring. The NEC has no control of wiring or methods employed outside its purview.

NEC ends at the receptacle...

That is a popular opinion but IMO is not supported by the words in the NEC.

First

90.2 Scope.
(A) Covered. This Code covers the installation of electrical
conductors, equipment,
and raceways; signaling and
communications conductors, equipment, and raceways; and
optical fiber cables and raceways for the following:

(1) Public and private premises,

Charlie B will say placing an appliance in a room and plugging it is is not 'installing' it. To me that is just a convenient reading to reach the conclusion he would like.

Consider.

422.40 Polarity in Cord-and-Plug-Connected Appliances.

If the appliance is provided with a manually operated, line-connected, single-pole switch for appliance on–
off operation, an Edison-base lampholder, or a 15- or 20-
ampere receptacle, the attachment plug shall be of the
polarized or grounding type.
A 2-wire, nonpolarized attachment plug shall be permitted
to be used on a listed double-insulated shaver.

422.41 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Appliances Subject
to Immersion. Cord-and-plug-connected portable, freestanding
hydromassage units and hand-held hair dryers
shall be constructed to provide protection for personnel
against electrocution when immersed while in the “on” or
“off” position.

422.44 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Immersion Heaters.
Electric heaters of the cord-and-plug-connected immersion
type shall be constructed and installed so that currentcarrying
parts are effectively insulated from electrical contact
with the substance in which they are immersed.

422.45 Stands for Cord-and-Plug-Connected Appliances.
Each smoothing iron and other cord-and-plugconnected
electrically heated appliance intended to be applied
to combustible material shall be equipped with an
approved stand, which shall be permitted to be a separate
piece of equipment or a part of the appliance.

422.46 Flatirons. Electrically heated smoothing irons shall
be equipped with an identified temperature-limiting means

422.49 High-Pressure Spray Washers. All single-phase
cord-and-plug-connected high-pressure spray washing machines
rated at 250 volts or less shall be provided with
factory-installed ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel. The ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be
an integral part of the attachment plug or shall be located in
the supply cord within 300 mm (12 in.) of the attachment
plug.

I could go on but I think the point has been made, clearly all the above code sections apply 'beyond the outlet'.

IMO the NEC applies to all electrical conductors and equipment in Public and private premises regardless of who is installing them.
 
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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Because we all know that adapters of this sort are required to be listed, correct?

Or not?

I do not know, I suspect not and I have not indicated I thought they should be.

But someone :grin: had said if it is a listed product it could be used without concern for the NEC.

I disagree. If it is approved by an NRTL it can be used in accordance to the instructions without violation.

All I am saying I do not think this is a listed product so it makes the above quote a moot point. :)
 
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