HVAC Condensate Pump

[augie47]

Question for the HVAC folks.
I ocassionly see a 240v condensate pump installed on air handler with 10kw and larger heat units and the installer simply taps on the 60 amp feeder. Do any of the manufacturers provide any means for connecting these fractional size pumps to the air handler including proper protection ?

 

[tortuga]

About 5 years ago we did a building with a 240 delta service, and everything that could be 240 had to be as the 120 sections were loaded up.
I had about 4 of those things, and I pulled two circuits a 60amp for the heat strip and a 20 amp for the blower motor and a 240V pump receptacle.
The HVAC guy was not impressed and said I could have tapped off the 60 amp, but I did not see how that was legal.

 

[LarryFine]

A feeder to a small panel is another option, and the panel can be the disconnect(s).

 

[kwired]

Question for the HVAC folks.
I ocassionly see a 240v condensate pump installed on air handler with 10kw and larger heat units and the installer simply taps on the 60 amp feeder. Do any of the manufacturers provide any means for connecting these fractional size pumps to the air handler including proper protection ?

Unless the pump is listed as an accessory item for the specific AHU, I really doubt it can be connected to the supply circuit without some sort of OCPD being involved. Even if listed, probably likely to include an OCPD in the listing/assembly.

 

[kwired]

About 5 years ago we did a building with a 240 delta service, and everything that could be 240 had to be as the 120 sections were loaded up.
I had about 4 of those things, and I pulled two circuits a 60amp for the heat strip and a 20 amp for the blower motor and a 240V pump receptacle.
The HVAC guy was not impressed and said I could have tapped off the 60 amp, but I did not see how that was legal.

I don't believe I have ever seen a residential grade air handler with less than a 30 amp breaker and never one with a separate breaker for the blower and controls. Commercial grade units you might. Seldom see any those other than RTU style units.

 

[hillbilly1]

Around here, the pumps are 120 volt, and the hvac guys would just pull a receptacle off one the hot legs, and the ground. That was until we started getting permitting and inspections. Probably a few still doing it if they put a system in without a permit.

 

[norcal]

Around here, the pumps are 120 volt, and the hvac guys would just pull a receptacle off one the hot legs, and the ground. That was until we started getting permitting and inspections. Probably a few still doing it if they put a system in without a permit.

HVAC installers need a serious beating when they touch electrical, not all are bad but some of them know enough to be dangerous.

 

[LarryFine]

HVAC installers need a serious beating when they touch electrical, not all are bad but some of them know enough to be dangerous.

Like one I saw where the A/C compressor unit was fed through a wall from a baseboard heater.

 

[kwired]

HVAC installers need a serious beating when they touch electrical, not all are bad but some of them know enough to be dangerous.

Farmers no different. Had fairly newly wired grain bin few years ago, that I wired new. Happened to come back for something else some time later and they had added a repeater antenna and equipment for their two way radios. Tapped into a disconnect for unloading auger to supply this 120 volt item, pretty minimal load but the auger was 240 volts, no neutral conductor was run because originally nothing there needed one. on top of that metal raceway was used as EGC, and of course his neutral for repeater equipment landed on a ground bar in the disconnect. If that wasn't enough he ran ENT (not EMT) exposed and outdoors. Guess the flexibility of it seemed more suitable to him to run around rounded bin walls. His brother (also an owner) asked me about this setup not knowing exactly what might all be wrong or how seriously wrong it may be. Let's just say I eventually made it right.

 

[norcal]

Farmers no different. Had fairly newly wired grain bin few years ago, that I wired new. Happened to come back for something else some time later and they had added a repeater antenna and equipment for their two way radios. Tapped into a disconnect for unloading auger to supply this 120 volt item, pretty minimal load but the auger was 240 volts, no neutral conductor was run because originally nothing there needed one. on top of that metal raceway was used as EGC, and of course his neutral for repeater equipment landed on a ground bar in the disconnect. If that wasn't enough he ran ENT (not EMT) exposed and outdoors. Guess the flexibility of it seemed more suitable to him to run around rounded bin walls. His brother (also an owner) asked me about this setup not knowing exactly what might all be wrong or how seriously wrong it may be. Let's just say I eventually made it right.

Did not think about farmers when writing my post, that was a inadvertent error on my part. They can be quite "creative" with their wiring, one of the worst I saw was a pole mounted service & a overhead line feeding a shop/ garage, instead of a panel, every NM cable (cloth wrapped no EGC) was connected to the drop without the benefit of a panel, my guess it was done in the 1950's.

 

[readydave8]

Farmers no different.

So aren't maintenance personnel

 

[Eddie702]

Like one I saw where the A/C compressor unit was fed through a wall from a baseboard heater.

Did some work for my niece on a house she bought last year.. They had a 240 volt through the wall ac that they removed after they bought the house. When I went down a few months later to do some work I asked were the circuit was for the ac. He told me there never was one. The previous owner had a cord he tied into the electric baseboard. Then he must have had to turn the wall mounted baseboard stat up to make the ac work

 

[kwired]

Did some work for my niece on a house she bought last year.. They had a 240 volt through the wall ac that they removed after they bought the house. When I went down a few months later to do some work I asked were the circuit was for the ac. He told me there never was one. The previous owner had a cord he tied into the electric baseboard. Then he must have had to turn the wall mounted baseboard stat up to make the ac work

Install a unit thermostat, then you can turn up wall stat , turn down unit stat and not be trying to heat and cool at same time.

Seen some wall thermostats though that may not have enough range to close contacts if room temp is too high.

 

[kwired]

So aren't maintenance personnel

Some are decent electricians some are not.

A school I have worked for for some time when needed has head maintenance man who was a journeyman electrician at one time. He knows what is right and wrong as a general rule but at same time has not kept up with code changes over the years. About the most electrical work he really did at the school though was simpler service work like ballast changes or other minor equipment repairs. He never AFAIK ever really added a new circuit for anything or extended circuits.