Hybrid cars and magnetic fields

[ghostbuster]

I have heard several owners of the honda insight have returned their cars ,after finding out they radiate D.C.magnetic fields.NOTE: this could also be a future potential problem for solar panel house wiring

Apparently,honda and toyota place these warnings in the owner's manual.

Has any one else heard of this problem?

 

[dennis schaffert]

Mag Fields

Mag Fields

What will they come up with next, A magnetic field is a magnetic field be it AC or DC. Further more we live in a world of magnetic fields. I highly doubt that any significant danger could be present.
About the only people that I know that have at least limited exposure to mag fields is the Amish although most of them are going solar.
Dennis

 

[brian john]

First I believe in being as green as I can be, I have been recycling for a long time, compacts fluorescents ect, backpacker, kayaker, so I am not trying to disparage anyone in the green movement, but some people drive hybrids and may be on the fringe of well being overly green "STARNGE" and possible a bit neurotic.

Several years a national association (lobby group) that is a leader in the Green field; that shall go unnamed, asked me to take EMF readings in their office, they wanted their office shielded from an adjacent electrical closet (understandable), all wiring removed to a safe distance and light fixtures raised (though the ceiling would not permit this). I asked them how they planned to operate their PC's, they had not figured that issue out. I declined the job

 

[mdshunk]

I have one of these type people Brian John describes as a regular customer. Makes for a few interesting days of work every few months. Never know quite what to expect. Normally my service calls begin by him presenting me with magazine articles and various printouts off the net, and we go from there. Whatever they want to pay for.

 

[wptski]

Just for fun check the power factor of a CFL. You may turn green!

 

[cadpoint]

The best comment I heard on the new cars, was a fellow electrician,
"Theres got to be someone to wire it to the house" ...

 

[sparky_magoo]

I have heard several owners of the honda insight have returned their cars ,after finding out they radiate D.C.magnetic fields.NOTE: this could also be a future potential problem for solar panel house wiring?

Are these the kind of people who wear magnetic bracelets, for arthritis relief, and worry about "stray" magnetic fields in the air?

 

[brian john]

Do not ride the subway.........
Stay off horses as road apples pollute the drinking water.
Do not walk as most shoes are made of leather which requires cows, cow flatulence adds to green house gasses.
Henry Fords auto? while this is one we do believe global warmer is made of, what you say alcohol from corn, this drives the price of corn up, the poor starve and the added acerage requires more fertilizer which pollutes the water (SEE ABOVE), Oh hydrogen you say, added humidity which leads to steamy days, can't cool off we all die from heat stroke.

Become a luddite, live in a cave and go bowling with Fred and Barney.

 

[Mr. Bill]

Oh hydrogen you say, added humidity which leads to steamy days, can't cool off we all die from heat stroke.

Currently, hydrogen power is just a shifting of the source of polution from the car's tailpipe to the Electric Utility. Hydrogen collection requires energy to extract it from water or other sources. Unless the hydrogen supplier gets 100% of their electricity from renewable sources (solar, wind, etc) then hydrogen cars will still add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere.

 

[wptski]

What if everybody went to 100% usage of CFL with a PF of .5?

 

[72.5kv]

Fun post. If only these people realize that you can run away from magnetic field. The earth is a giant magnetic. Makes them want to scream.

 

[karl riley]

Wow! I just read these posts. The level of humorous ignorance shown re: magnetic fields and health effects is surprising at this time (2007) since so much valid scientific research has been published over the years.

Maybe I haven't been doing my job as moderator recently.

Hey guys, macho attitudes don't substitute for knowledge. AC magnetic fields of 4 mG and above are associated with a doubling of childhood leukemia. This association is as solid as statistical studies can supply.

However, DC magnetic fields such as the Earth's are not since they do not induce electric currents (unless turned on and off = AC).

The prius evidently produces both AC and DC. I have been asked to do a thorough measurement of whatever fields are present but so far have not had a Prius available. Will let you all know when/if I do.

Karl

 

[dbuckley]

Hey guys, macho attitudes don't substitute for knowledge. AC magnetic fields of 4 mG and above are associated with a doubling of childhood leukemia. This association is as solid as statistical studies can supply.

Thats what I'd call an "extreme" position. It is true, a number of studies have indicated the associations you note. However, other studies show there are no associations. A recent study showed that being near power lines is not good for your health, but determined that it was not anything to do with electric fields. So the association is as solid as the studies you choose to reference.

At this point in our understanding, whereas it's possible there may be an association (or even a causative relationship) it's far from universally accepted wisdom. This article illustrates the confusion.

Contrast this with something like smoking, or driving, or working with asbestos, for all of which there is no reasonable argument that they are not harmful to health.

Maybe I haven't been doing my job as moderator recently.

Pushing an extreme position would not, in my opinion, be the role of a moderator. As a contributor, you're welcome to any position you like

 

[mdshunk]

Hey, any extreme position is fine with me, as long as it assures a steady flow of work for electricians by some means.

 

[dereckbc]

Hey guys, macho attitudes don't substitute for knowledge. AC magnetic fields of 4 mG and above are associated with a doubling of childhood leukemia. This association is as solid as statistical studies can supply.

However, DC magnetic fields such as the Earth's are not since they do not induce electric currents (unless turned on and off = AC).Karl

Karl I understand your points and sympathetic.
Point 1 is DC does not induce currents, agree 1000%
Now here is where we might dance, maybe on my ignorance, but I shall speak anyway. From what I know to generate fields of 4G and greater are things like MRI, magnetically levitated trains, particle accelerators, and high-energy physics labs. Not things ordinary folks are exposed too.

 

[mdshunk]

Some of the best free technical reading on this matter, from actual scientific studies, is here:

http://www.icnirp.de/pubEMF.htm

The main document is this one: http://www.icnirp.de/documents/emfgdl.pdf

 

[ed downey]

Dereck

Karl indicated 4 mG not 4 G. 4 mG is very easy to come by with miswired circuits.

 

[brian john]

My stand on this has always been to err on the side of safety, when I built my house I wired for as EMF "safe" as possible. I do not doubt there may be a possible hazard from EMF exposure and if there is, some of us are dead ducks. My point is and will be, is some people (NO MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE) drop off the end of the Earth, making an office EMF "safe" is one thing, trying to operate without receptacles and lights is another.

I am a vegetarian (I have been most my life) just a life style I choose, nothing I force on others. But I cringe when I am in a vegetarian restaurant AND see the STRANGE-Os that are my "fellow" vegetarians.

 

[ghostbuster]

Just to add to our original post:

Our group has been contacted by one of the top 3 U.S.newspapers .

They are planning on doing an independent in depth analysis of the hybrid cars magnetic fields and then releasing the results to the general public.

It would appear in other "magnetically sensitive" countries car options can be purchased to reduce these fields.

Clarification:

When the car accelerates and slows down ,there are transitory wildly fluctuating fields.These are not pure steady state D.C. fields.

 

[karl riley]

My reaction to all the posts was I admit too short tempered. At my age (79) that happens.

But as to whether my opinion is extreme, I should mention that I was in on the 5-day research conferences from near the beginning, in 1989, and have attended yearly conferences until recently. 5 days of scientific papers followed by sharp give-and-take discussions from their peers as well as utility and government representatives sent there for that purpose. Plus hundreds of papers posted in the poster rooms.

I know some of the scientists on both sides, and some of the utility engineers. I have watched the drama unfold. I have seen valid results hidden by sponsor-written "executive summaries" which are distributed to the press. Unfortunately in this controversy the big money is on the denial side. Does everyone understand what that means?

And my conclusions are the same as the scientists of the IARC (International Agency for Research in Cancer) of WHO who collected and brought together all the major studies over the years to form a mega-study and increase the statistical reliability. The results were that 4 mG or more is associated with double the rate of childhood leukemia. This is considered a very conservative body of scientists who really don't want to rock the boat.

The big NIH study that "disproved" the connection between mag fields and health actually showed inconclusive relationship only to 2 mG. The receptive press hid the fact that there was indeed an association with 3 mG and 4 mG and childhood leukemia. Some years later the NIH scientists admitted this mis-communication but the damage had been done and is still repeated.

Unfortunately as time goes on the spin doctors take over. But my job was to show that certain NEC violations cause high magnetic fields in buildings. I don't have to convince anyone their child may get leukemia. I just tell them to get the wiring fixed and brought to Code. These wiring errors cause higher fields than power lines (by statistical study).

Karl