I could use a little help...

[1793]

I received a call the other day from a customer informing me that they had lost power. They had called the POCO before calling me. The POCO came out and according to the HO they pulled the meter and placed a "load" on the system at the meter, and reported that everything was fine. The workmen told the HO to call their electrician to check out the problem.

The panel is a Federal Pacific split buss with a 50 amp main for the lighting. It appears that the power loss is not the entire house and when it goes off it comes back on, on its own.

I checked all of the ungrounded conductor connections in the panel and all were tight, I took readings as well at each and every breaker and all appear to be working correctly. I checked the connections at the meter as well and all were tight. Power appears stable for a few days then, winks off, and back on.

I have thought about changing the Main breaker but I don't want to start jumping hoops if I don't have to. Do I call the POCO back and if so what should I ask them to do or check?

I'm looking for any suggestions about how I might find the cause of this problem.

 

[augie47]

IMHO, without any additional testing you have two valid reasons to change the panel: age and the fact that it's a Federal Pacific.
Due to facts lsited often on this site, if a customer had a Stab-Lok FPE panel, I would strongly suggest immediate replacement.

 

[mivey]

I received a call the other day from a customer informing me that they had lost power. They had called the POCO before calling me. The POCO came out and according to the HO they pulled the meter and placed a "load" on the system at the meter, and reported that everything was fine. The workmen told the HO to call their electrician to check out the problem.

The panel is a Federal Pacific split buss with a 50 amp main for the lighting. It appears that the power loss is not the entire house and when it goes off it comes back on, on its own.

I checked all of the ungrounded conductor connections in the panel and all were tight, I took readings as well at each and every breaker and all appear to be working correctly. I checked the connections at the meter as well and all were tight. Power appears stable for a few days then, winks off, and back on.

I have thought about changing the Main breaker but I don't want to start jumping hoops if I don't have to. Do I call the POCO back and if so what should I ask them to do or check?

I'm looking for any suggestions about how I might find the cause of this problem.

The POCO could have a bad connection or a transformer that is failing. I doubt they will do much until you have exhusted the search on your end. Are any neighbors on the same transformer having the same problem? Have you pulled all of the breakers, including the main to check the terminals? Do you feel any heat on the breakers?

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

The panel is a Federal Pacific split buss with a 50 amp main for the lighting. It appears that the power loss is not the entire house and when it goes off it comes back on, on its own.

I'm looking for any suggestions about how I might find the cause of this problem.

To err is human. But when it comes to electrical problems and residential customers, often "the lighting circuit in the room I happen to be occupying flickers" is easily described as "the entire house loses power and then it comes back on."

If you are not there when it happens, do not put too much faith in their description. It could just be a bad stab on one 15a breaker, or a problem with one splice in one circuit.

 

[1793]

The POCO could have a bad connection or a transformer that is failing. I doubt they will do much until you have exhusted the search on your end. Are any neighbors on the same transformer having the same problem? Have you pulled all of the breakers, including the main to check the terminals? Do you feel any heat on the breakers?

I did ask if the HO had or could talk with any of the neighbors. The Service is overhead and there are no trees to hit the lines. I did not pull any breakers but I did feel them and none of them were hot or even warm.

I suspect there is a phase dropping out but from where I'm not sure.

 

[charlie tuna]

without a data recorder you can only guess on any problem that is intermediate! of course your customer doesn't want to hear that--sp you just tell him your best guess--but it's only a guess. like taking your car into the dealership and they start changing parts until they "think"? they found the problem---same thing.

 

[mivey]

If a neighbor is on the same transformer and having the same problem, go immediately to the POCO. If the neighbor is on the same transformer but not having the same problem, it could still be a POCO problem outside the transformer (bad connection).

Without the neighbor's input, you are pretty much going to have to stick with this HO's equipment. I would think the breaker would be hot if it had a bad connection. To eliminate the possibility, I would inspect the breaker terminals as well as the back of the main. If you have a main going bad, I would expect to see external evidence in a lot of cases but I guess not always.

What about some of the megger experts? Do ya'll have suggestions on identifying a bad section of cable that is hidden?

Is there an old/sub panel or panel location fed from the main panel that may have a bad connection? Once you eliminate the main, the main bus, the main cable (megger?) and any sub-panel/splices, You are down to POCO service drop connectors, transformer internal connections, meter connections.

 

[LarryFine]

If you want to try something a bit unorthodox, get a pair of inexpensive 120v indicator lamps of some sort, and clip each one to one side of the incoming panel hot terminals and to neutral.

Place them where the customer can see them burning. Next time the power problem occurs, have the customer check the lamps. They need not be very high-wattage bulbs; neons would work.

 

[jrannis]

If you want to try something a bit unorthodox, get a pair of inexpensive 120v indicator lamps of some sort, and clip each one to one side of the incoming panel hot terminals and to neutral.

Place them where the customer can see them burning. Next time the power problem occurs, have the customer check the lamps. They need not be very high-wattage bulbs; neons would work.

Holy Cow!!!!!

 

[76nemo]

Unprotected Larry:-?

 

[HighWirey]

If you want to try something a bit unorthodox, get a pair of inexpensive 120v indicator lamps of some sort, and clip each one to one side of the incoming panel hot terminals and to neutral.

Place them where the customer can see them burning. Next time the power problem occurs, have the customer check the lamps. They need not be very high-wattage bulbs; neons would work.

Get 'er done. I like it . . .

 

[LarryFine]

Unprotected Larry:-?

If you like, you could place a 1/2a fuse in line with each one. This is a temporary suggestion, by the way.

 

[quogueelectric]

I received a call the other day from a customer informing me that they had lost power. They had called the POCO before calling me. The POCO came out and according to the HO they pulled the meter and placed a "load" on the system at the meter, and reported that everything was fine. The workmen told the HO to call their electrician to check out the problem.

The panel is a Federal Pacific split buss with a 50 amp main for the lighting. It appears that the power loss is not the entire house and when it goes off it comes back on, on its own.

I checked all of the ungrounded conductor connections in the panel and all were tight, I took readings as well at each and every breaker and all appear to be working correctly. I checked the connections at the meter as well and all were tight. Power appears stable for a few days then, winks off, and back on.









I have many service calls in my area in an old Military housing area that went half public about 30 yrs ago. Half public Half Coast Guard all of these houses have duplex services with 100 A FP main breakers to 100 a fp panels. About 5 or 6 mains burn up every year I am almost certain that this is your problem They burn then fix themselves and look at you like its not me sometimes for months before the eventual demise. Check the mains for heat and burn but locate a replacement before you mess with it.

 

[1793]

Problem Solved

Problem Solved

I received a call late yesterday that the power was off again. I was only about 5-10 min. away on another call so I dropped everything and made it to the house before the power came back on.

Checked at the panel first, breaker one leg off, checked main lugs in panel, one leg off, took the meter cover off load side one leg, off tested the meter line side one leg off. At the weatherhead, Service Connection was bad on one leg.

HO called the POCO and they came out and reconnected the Service. So far no problem.

Thanks to all and I hope I can help some of you in the future.

 

[yakov shmayevich]

electrical engineer

electrical engineer

The POCO could have a bad connection or a transformer that is failing. I doubt they will do much until you have exhusted the search on your end. Are any neighbors on the same transformer having the same problem? Have you pulled all of the breakers, including the main to check the terminals? Do you feel any heat on the breakers?

::-? grounding metal lamppost