I don't like but its legal

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Here's another of my I don't like it, but its legal, and its probably the fastest to get the job done.

A circuit(recptacle) was disconnected and the panel it came from is full. That 20 amp breaker that fed it lost its spot to a 3 pole 100 amp, (along with 2 other breakers).

There is a panel 'right beside it' with a spare. Basically the plan is to run a short conduit/flex about 6" to the panel where the wires were originally in the panel, and just feed that circuit that way. Basically, using that original panel as a 'junction' box for a splice just for that one circuit.

I recommended that they 'tag',label the circuit so the next person will quickly know that its feed from another panel and killing power to that panel will not kill all the power in that panel.

What do you think??
 

daleuger

Senior Member
Location
earth
Do they have objections to tagging it?

Or how about pull it out of original panel all together, set a 4S or other small j-box, run it from there and label the cover?
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
I've been in warehouses and stores that had 20 different panels. Finding what breaker controls what can be a chore to say the least. It would be nice if every receptacle had its panel and circuit number labeled on the inside of the faceplate. Till that perfect day comes however, I have my circuit tracer....
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I recommended that they 'tag',label the circuit so the next person will quickly know that its feed from another panel and killing power to that panel will not kill all the power in that panel.

What do you think??

I think any electrician that sees two panels nippled together with wires chased between them can figure it for themselves. Labeling never hurts though...
 

e57

Senior Member
I think any electrician that sees two panels nippled together with wires chased between them can figure it for themselves. Labeling never hurts though...
Ditto too.... :roll:

I worked in a building that had a huge electrical room - about a dozen 60KW tranformers - and two dozen panels side by side with gutters top and bottom - every conduit out had a mix of this and that to each area - each panel had catagories of lighting, equipment, appliances... Different voltages - same voltage different transformer... You could spend an hour just finding out what to shut off to kill circuits in one box at the far end... Despite the covers being well marked with circuit numbers....
 

buldogg

Senior Member
Location
Green Bay, Wisc.
Ditto too.... :roll:

I worked in a building that had a huge electrical room - about a dozen 60KW tranformers - and two dozen panels side by side with gutters top and bottom - every conduit out had a mix of this and that to each area - each panel had catagories of lighting, equipment, appliances... Different voltages - same voltage different transformer... You could spend an hour just finding out what to shut off to kill circuits in one box at the far end... Despite the covers being well marked with circuit numbers....

Sounds like a busy hour
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I think any electrician that sees two panels nippled together with wires chased between them can figure it for themselves. Labeling never hurts though...

Agreed, this installation shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if the two panels are next to each other.
 

Rewire

Senior Member
Here's another of my I don't like it, but its legal, and its probably the fastest to get the job done.

A circuit(recptacle) was disconnected and the panel it came from is full. That 20 amp breaker that fed it lost its spot to a 3 pole 100 amp, (along with 2 other breakers).

There is a panel 'right beside it' with a spare. Basically the plan is to run a short conduit/flex about 6" to the panel where the wires were originally in the panel, and just feed that circuit that way. Basically, using that original panel as a 'junction' box for a splice just for that one circuit.

I recommended that they 'tag',label the circuit so the next person will quickly know that its feed from another panel and killing power to that panel will not kill all the power in that panel.

What do you think??

I like the tagging idea as it would make it easier to identify maybe this could be recommended to the next code panel
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
You bet, but can somebody list the code section that allows the panel to act as a JBox.
Bob gave you a good reference, but, if I might add.
I can't take credit for this, nor, in my old age can I recall to whom to give credit (possibly Bob), but one thing I definitely learned here that has been a big help in inspecting is the philosophy that the NEC is a "permissive" Code which for the most part states what you are not allowed to do.
If it doesn't say you aren't allowed, most often it means you are.
 

daleuger

Senior Member
Location
earth
Bob gave you a good reference, but, if I might add.
I can't take credit for this, nor, in my old age can I recall to whom to give credit (possibly Bob), but one thing I definitely learned here that has been a big help in inspecting is the philosophy that the NEC is a "permissive" Code which for the most part states what you are not allowed to do.
If it doesn't say you aren't allowed, most often it means you are.

You bet, but can somebody list the code section that allows the panel to act as a JBox.

Haha I was about to say show me one that says you can't :D
 

e57

Senior Member
I like the tagging idea as it would make it easier to identify maybe this could be recommended to the next code panel
Why not - I think it is soon to be on the way, it'll be very soon (for me - still on the '05) that we'll have to bundle MWBC's and have then tied together - why not have a tag with panel name, and circuit number too. I'm sure Panduit or some zip-tie making company like that would foot the bill for 3 dozen professional code guru's to back it up with all kinds of extrapolated data.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
Why not - I think it is soon to be on the way, it'll be very soon (for me - still on the '05) that we'll have to bundle MWBC's and have then tied together - why not have a tag with panel name, and circuit number too. I'm sure Panduit or some zip-tie making company like that would foot the bill for 3 dozen professional code guru's to back it up with all kinds of extrapolated data.

Amen to that.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
brother said:
There is a panel 'right beside it' with a spare. Basically the plan is to run a short conduit/flex about 6" to the panel where the wires were originally in the panel, and just feed that circuit that way. Basically, using that original panel as a 'junction' box for a splice just for that one circuit.

I recommended that they 'tag',label the circuit so the next person will quickly know that its feed from another panel and killing power to that panel will not kill all the power in that panel.

What do you think??

What do I think? Well first I would point out that it is imposable to splice in a 'panel', panels are contained in cabinets and the rules for cabinets are found in 312. :)

Interesting comments. So whos gonna proposed the 'taging/labeling' idea?? Even then, I still dont like it . LOL ;)

What specifically would you like to see prohibited?:)

Splices in a cabinet?

Using a cabinet as a raceway?

Power from different sources in the same cabinet?

How would you deal with 480 volt breakers that use 120 volt control circuits?

How would you deal with cabinets that contain both a panelboard and contactor that controls it? (The control circuit has to come from another source)
 
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