I get involved - Boiler Flames

Status
Not open for further replies.
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Customer with a boiler that we work with on occasion. If it doesn't start we make sure there is power. Last call they jumped things until they got it running. We went up the following morning to confirm an issue and tell them to get a BOILER technician. Lucky they didn't blow things up.

When the burner is on you can see the yellow glow from the burners. Shouldn't these be blue?
 
A yellow flame is generally an indication that combustion is happening with insufficient oxygen present. Also a yellow flame will generally produce soot where as a blue one will not.

A combustion device burning with a flame may also be producing Carbon Monoxide.

As an aside, here in the UK you need to be registered to work an a Gas Appliance. Doing so without this registration is an offense which is punishable by heavy fines and/or imprisonment. Is this not the case in the US?
 
While tempting to get heat, it's never a good idea to jump out safety circuits on a boiler

Assuming natural gas, yes it should be blue
 
ptonsparky said:
Customer with a boiler that we work with on occasion. If it doesn't start we make sure there is power. Last call they jumped things until they got it running. We went up the following morning to confirm an issue and tell them to get a BOILER technician. Lucky they didn't blow things up.

When the burner is on you can see the yellow glow from the burners. Shouldn't these be blue?
Click to expand...
Maybe. A yellow instead of blue gas flame can sometimes indicate insufficient air to the burner, which can mean CO instead of CO2 combustion products. I got CO poisoned once from a gas wall heater that was not getting enough air.
 
LarryFine said:
Sounds like you both suffered the same malady. :sneaky:
Click to expand...
I know you are joking, but CO poisoning can happen when there is plenty of air. It ties up the hemoglobin in the blood so that it cannot transport oxygen to the body. The attachment happens much faster than deattachment, so the process is cumulative as long as there is CO present; long exposure to even very low concentrations of CO can be fatal. I have experienced CO poisoning three times, and I can tell you that it's no fun.
 
ptonsparky said:
Customer with a boiler that we work with on occasion. If it doesn't start we make sure there is power. Last call they jumped things until they got it running. We went up the following morning to confirm an issue and tell them to get a BOILER technician. Lucky they didn't blow things up.

When the burner is on you can see the yellow glow from the burners. Shouldn't these be blue?
Click to expand...
I agree they need a boiler guy to come take a look. The safety circuits are there for a reason. Hard to diagnose anything by looking at the flame. Sometimes a bit of the edge of the flame is yellowish when it is just fine and the blue flame can sometimes be hard to see.
 
AdrianWint said:
A yellow flame is generally an indication that combustion is happening with insufficient oxygen present. Also a yellow flame will generally produce soot where as a blue one will not.

A combustion device burning with a flame may also be producing Carbon Monoxide.

As an aside, here in the UK you need to be registered to work an a Gas Appliance. Doing so without this registration is an offense which is punishable by heavy fines and/or imprisonment. Is this not the case in the US?
Click to expand...
Also seen yellow flame where there is not enough gas in the mixture. Usually because the ports in the mixer where the gas gets introduces are plugged or partially plugged. Last one I was involved with the service manual for that burner told what size drill to use to open those holes again. It wasn't for a boiler but for a drying process. They called me because they were having trouble keeping it hot enough to run their normal processing speed. I checked out some the controls and found nothing wrong. Then I looked into the flame inspection port and noticed flame was mostly yellow when on maximum firing rate. This place has a maintenance guy but I have done more than just electrical in past there so I know where things are and how a lot of stuff works at that plant, found information in the service manual and told him to follow things in there. They cleaned and drilled out ports and it apparently was fine after that.
 
ptonsparky said:
Old Caldwell dryer burner rings were notorious for rusting shut. We used to clean them frequently. Better corn hybrids have reduced my dryer calls to maybe 1% of what they were 30 years ago. Don't miss it. I think the only calls I had were for fans this last year.
Click to expand...
I have a client with dryers on two different sites. They use them nearly every year, but part the idea is they farm enough ground that they want to start harvesting by a particular date even if it means they must dry some the early stuff. Both are still new enough haven't had much for troubles yet. Usually the calls so far are more operator error and forgetting how to run the thing since they only use them a couple weeks or so every fall.
 
AdrianWint said:
A yellow flame is generally an indication that combustion is happening with insufficient oxygen present. Also a yellow flame will generally produce soot where as a blue one will not.

A combustion device burning with a flame may also be producing Carbon Monoxide.

As an aside, here in the UK you need to be registered to work an a Gas Appliance. Doing so without this registration is an offense which is punishable by heavy fines and/or imprisonment. Is this not the case in the US?
Click to expand...

No, it depends on where you're at. Every US state makes their own rules, some cities too. The size of the UK would make licensing more consistent. It's only as big as one US state with Texas and Calif each being almost 3 times larger. There are 50 states plus DC.

Some gas appliance techs carry red tags stating dangerous do not use.
 
zbang said:
Oil burners (and coal) are orange/yellow, gas burns hotter and looks blue.

Sounds like they definitely need a proper burner tech.
Click to expand...
As I recall, the oil burner in my last house fired as yellow.
 
kwired said:
Yet most of it goes right up the flue.
Click to expand...

Back when those conversions were done, gas was so cheap you could heat a home for a few dollars per month, even with the poor efficiency. Plus, no need to shovel coal or ash. People though they were in heat-heaven.

My childhood home had one of these. It was replaced with forced-air gas in the early 60s.
 
Buck Parrish said:
No, it depends on where you're at. Every US state makes their own rules, some cities too. The size of the UK would make licensing more consistent. It's only as big as one US state with Texas and Calif each being almost 3 times larger. There are 50 states plus DC.

Some gas appliance techs carry red tags stating dangerous do not use.
Click to expand...

MA is one such state that licenses every trade. If you remember Steve L the YouTube plumber (we posted his famous toilet unclogging video awhile back). He's also a licensed HVAC and gas tech and has many videos of his work on gas and oil-fired equipment. With gas, he is required to test the CO in the stack which must be 50ppm or lower and if it can't be adjusted or repaired to produce that he red tags it. Testing the CO is the way to determine if a burner is burning properly- after visually looking at it.

When I was doing oil (mostly my own) years ago I still have an old Bacharach kit that tested CO with a liquid that had to be replaced all the time. Looks like it's still available-

www.zoro.com

Bacharach 10-5022 $761.69 Test Kit | Zoro.com

Order Bacharach Test Kit, 10-5022 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.
www.zoro.com www.zoro.com

Of course, today there are better ways for about the same price-

Residential & Commercial Combustion Analyzers | TruTech Tools

Find residential and commercial combustion analyzers at TruTech Tools. Professional-grade devices engineered for reliable performance and precision.
www.trutechtools.com www.trutechtools.com

-Hal
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top