I have a headache....please help - 3 issues...

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beegee

Member
Location
MN
I've been an electrician for 7 years now, and I've done residential for 3 years, so when I decided to finish my basement I never thought I'd have a problem with the inspection, but I did. First off, whenever I've wired recessed cans I've used the blue, plastic, push-in type, T&B Bushings, and the inspector dinged me on that. Also, the stairway that leads to my basement has 6 steps, a small landing, then 6 more steps to the basement floor. This entire stairwell was sheetrocked prior to me buying this place, and he's trying to tell me that I need to add a receptacle in the sheetrocked stairwell. Lastly, he's requiring me to add a three way switch for the basement(family rm) can lights between the bottom of the stairs and the sliding glass door that leads to the backyard. I only have dimmers at the bottom of the stairs as it is. 3-ways arent required in the code, right? I'm all for doing things the right way, but I thought that I have been. I hope this isn't too confusing, and any advice is appreciated!
 

bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
WHAT! did he give you any code reference? you need to have a switch at that back door for an outside light since it is at grade level. do you have a switch at that door which will turn on some lights in the basement when you use that door as an entry? I don't see it needing to be a 3way. and what is his deal with the landing is he saying that is wall space? its a stairway I don't know of a requirement for a rec in a stairway. I think maybe he was tokin' it up before he came in your house.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
beegee said:
I've been an electrician for 7 years now, and I've done residential for 3 years, so when I decided to finish my basement I never thought I'd have a problem with the inspection, but I did. First off, whenever I've wired recessed cans I've used the blue, plastic, push-in type, T&B Bushings, and the inspector dinged me on that. Also, the stairway that leads to my basement has 6 steps, a small landing, then 6 more steps to the basement floor. This entire stairwell was sheetrocked prior to me buying this place, and he's trying to tell me that I need to add a receptacle in the sheetrocked stairwell. Lastly, he's requiring me to add a three way switch for the basement(family rm) can lights between the bottom of the stairs and the sliding glass door that leads to the backyard. I only have dimmers at the bottom of the stairs as it is. 3-ways arent required in the code, right? I'm all for doing things the right way, but I thought that I have been. I hope this isn't too confusing, and any advice is appreciated!


1ST issue bushings.If your talking about plastic bushings (topez) they are legal if ul listed.I have not seen them in blue.
2 nd issue unless that landing is 10 feet long it does not need a receptacle.Ask him to cite code # and he will back off on this one.
3 rd other than for light on stairway no 3 ways are ever required.Actually you could put all the switches in the garage if you like.Stairways will need 1 at top and 1 at bottom unless that landing leads to a room.
 
Location
Colorado
If they are "bushing" & not connectors he may be right. Art,312.5(C) - requires the NM cables to be connected to the boxes. As far as the requirement fo rthe receptacle on the landing under Art,210.52 it would not be a requirement. As far as the 3-way the only requirement would be @ the top & the bottom of the stairs per Art,210.70(A)(2). I hope this helps.
 

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
I think he is probably talking about the blue plastic snap-in connectors with the little attached wedge. I've never used them but I've seen them.

Mark
 

beegee

Member
Location
MN
try this

try this

Nope. Not the ones with the wedge. Try this.. http://news.thomasnet.com/images/large/014/14234.jpg , their like the two black ones in the middle of the top row in this picture. Except that their blue, made by t&b, and UL listed. As an apprentice, I used them in the tops of residential panels, as long as you strapped them at the proper distance from the box/panel...
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Bushings.

Bushings.

Bushings are bushings. Conectors are conectors. Bushings don't grab the rx. connectors do. I don't care what color they are, Plastic connectors are legal. I find little use for plastic bushings.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
beegee said:
First off, whenever I've wired recessed cans I've used the blue, plastic, push-in type, T&B Bushings, and the inspector dinged me on that.
I agree with John Deere Man. If the NM is not clamped to the box, and you didn't use the NM openings in the can's wiring compartment, he's got you dead to rights. I think it's a bit nitpicky, as the Capri cans I normally use are listed without a clamp on the NM openings.

...he's trying to tell me that I need to add a receptacle in the sheetrocked stairwell.
Barring a local ordinance, this is not required by the NEC. 210.52(A).

Lastly, he's requiring me to add a three way switch for the basement(family rm) can lights between the bottom of the stairs and the sliding glass door that leads to the backyard.
It could be a local ordinance, but it is not required by the NEC. 210.70(A)(2)(c) is the closest requirement to this, but you have not indicated that the slider is on a different floor level, so it wouldn't apply.

I'm all for doing things the right way, but I thought that I have been. I hope this isn't too confusing, and any advice is appreciated!
As the designer and owner, you should have decided to install the threeway on your own, before inspection. ;)

Anyway, it's up to you to fight it, or install the requested items. In my position, I am urged to simply comply and forget about it. It's up to you.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
beegee said:
Nope. Not the ones with the wedge. Try this.. http://news.thomasnet.com/images/large/014/14234.jpg , their like the two black ones in the middle of the top row in this picture. Except that their blue, made by t&b, and UL listed. As an apprentice, I used them in the tops of residential panels, as long as you strapped them at the proper distance from the box/panel...

I will have to side with the inspector if thats what you used.Hope not too many to redue.Rest of what he taged is showing his skill level and its low.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
beegee said:
Nope. Not the ones with the wedge. Try this.. http://news.thomasnet.com/images/large/014/14234.jpg , their like the two black ones in the middle of the top row in this picture. Except that their blue, made by t&b, and UL listed. As an apprentice, I used them in the tops of residential panels, as long as you strapped them at the proper distance from the box/panel...

Nope...can't use them for panels....check out Sec 312.5(C) as it pertains to the bushing images you posted.

Now T&B makes some black ones that DO grip and hold the wire and are allowed.
 

gndrod

Senior Member
Location
Ca and Wa
A motion sensor light covers stairwell switch problem per [210.70(2)(c)] Exception. If push comes to shove, shunting the switch 'on' for full time motion/light in stairwell will comply to above code. That landing does not require a receptacle outlet unless it is a ten foot run as mentioned in one of the earlier replies. This is a far out answer but what the hey...It'll give the AHJ something to study up on and possibly reconsider. I'd press him on the 3-way to the exit door though. Ask for a section quote on that one. JMO
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Fix the connectors and be there with a print out of this post and your code book.This kind of inspector we do not need.Either he cites code number or he needs to go back to pulling wires.Many of us here are fine electricians but would make poor inspectors for lack of finding the code number every time we see what we think is a violation.Its not an easy job and i respect the ones that can do it right.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Jim W in Tampa said:
Many of us here are fine electricians but would make poor inspectors for lack of finding the code number every time we see what we think is a violation.Its not an easy job and i respect the ones that can do it right.
On the few occasions I've "played inspector" in my mind, I've had more trouble actually seeing the violation than being able to cite a code for it. I too respect the keen eyes that pick us apart. :cool:
 

ceb

Senior Member
Location
raeford,nc
OK I will be the one to ask,if you are what you say you are then why even get the inspector involved in your on house.( I know I will hear it frome every one else) Yes I pull permits and have inspections for my work for others but not at my own home. However i agree with the others have code to back you up and make him show you why you cant
 

allenwayne

Senior Member
Jim I agree and disagree.Depending on local addendums.In the city of Tampa a landing that is 36 ins X 36 ins or more requires a receptacle.although a 3 way is not required the NEC does state that there will be a switch to control the lighting at each level,a 3 way makes scense though.
 
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