I need help!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
O

octaviosc

Member
Location
Maryland
I have to make a kitchen (garbage disposal switch and plug), the problem is there aren?t space, above the countertop there are a big window, (no wall).. What can i do, NEC ok???

Another, I need to put two plug in one island in the kitchen, there are a specified level (high) for that?

If i have to change the complete service panel, the power come from undergrown, i only have to wire from the meters to panel?
 
Can you give us more details? Where are you located? What is your normal field of expertise?

I am trying to understand how your first two paragraphs relate to your third. I'm not following.

Is this a new house or a remodel?
 
First and second question: Maybe a surface type box on the counter top or a surface mount raceway (wiremold) on the window frame. You could put the Switch and receptacle on the face of the base cabinet, as long as the counter top doesn't over hang the cabinet by 6 inches or more. This receptacle and the one on the island must be within 12 inches of the top of the counter it serves. The island counter top can't overhang the side of the island base that the outlet is on by 6" or more.

As for the third question: If the existing meter is acceptable to the power company and the local inspector, you may only have to replace the panel.
The wire and the conduit would have to be evaluated to see if they are the proper size and material.
 
Most of my disposal switches end up under the sink just inside the door. HOs seem to like mot seeing it and getting it mixed up with other switches.
 
I have used the inside of a cabinet close to the top for both disposal switch and counter top receptacles.When there was no place to install a receptacle above.Like when the designer had nothing but glass block flush with the counter top to the bottom of the upper cabinets.On a side note you can even use a stack switch/receptacle to switch the disposal and meet the receptacle requirement, since the code requires a receptacle and not a duplex receptacle.As long as the measurements are met to be installed below the counter top.

Sure you could use a tombstone type receptacle,but if I was the HO and was paying 50+/sq. ft. for a counter top and the EC wanted to install some hideous looking device on it and could code wise mount the receptacle in the cabinet......Well that is a no brainer.
 
allenwayne said:
I have used the inside of a cabinet close to the top for both disposal switch and counter top receptacles.
Click to expand...

Allen, maybe I've misunderstood what you wrote but are you saying that you install receptacles inside the cabinet below the counter surface to act as the required receptacles for counterspace for kitchern counter surfaces?

(5) Receptacle Outlet Location - Receptacle outlets shall be located above, but not more than 500 mm (20 in.) above, the countertop. Receptacle outlets rendered not readily accessible by appliances fastened in place, appliance garages, sinks, or rangetops as covered in 210.52(C)(1), Exception, or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as these required outlets.

Not challenging you but was just curious.

Pete
 
Me too...

Me too...

pete m. said:
... are you saying that you install receptacles inside the cabinet below the counter surface to act as the required receptacles for counterspace for kitchern counter surfaces?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. :cool:
 
Why couldn`t you ??? Suppose you had an island that had no dead fronts just doors on all 4 sides,where would you install the required receptacles.Lets say this hypothetical Island had only 2 ins of overhang and there as said is no place to cut in a box.

What would you do ?????? As long as the receptacle is within the allowed areas below the counter top.IE within 6 ins. of the overhang and not more than 12 ins. below.What article won`t allow it ?????The NEC doesn`t mention that receptacles inside the cabinet are not permitted does it ?????

This was the exact scenario I encountered and when the inspector questioned it I used the same argument.He looked and not being able to find a violation all the units passed finals.The code limits the distance above the counter top and limits the distance below and under the counter top, but it does not say that a receptacle to serve a counter top HAS to be above the counter top.Just that there must be there to serve the counter top.Within the allowed distances.:)
 
Here's a pic of an air switch. It is a push button that's cut into the counter or sink rim. It activates the unit below the counter to start and stop the disposal. Just plug it into the rec. under the sink and plug the disposal into it.:wink:

2uijdeg.jpg
 
Allen, I guess I did misunderstand. You are correct for islands and peninsula counterspaces (as Charlie mentioned). I took it that you were refering to counterspace that has wall space above and, usually, behind it.

My apologies.

Pete
 
I'm not sure I follow...

I'm not sure I follow...

Charlie & Allen:

Are you saying that you can/could put the required counter top receptacle inside the base cabinet? :-?
 
allenwayne said:
As long as the receptacle is within the allowed areas below the counter top.IE within 6 ins. of the overhang and not more than 12 ins. below.What article won`t allow it ?????The NEC doesn`t mention that receptacles inside the cabinet are not permitted does it ?????
Click to expand...
No, the receptacle inside the cabinet is perfectly fine.

I'd fail it for a 400.8(3). You are requiring the user to run their cord through a door or similar opening. :D

allenwayne said:
What would you do ??????
Click to expand...
I'd tell the owner to either give me a location for a receptacle, or take it up with the AHJ. :)

I have to say, I'm impressed with the cleverness of the idea. I'd say it is compliant with 210.52. :cool:
 
yanici said:
Here's a pic of an air switch. It is a push button that's cut into the counter or sink rim. It activates the unit below the counter to start and stop the disposal. Just plug it into the rec. under the sink and plug the disposal into it.:wink:

2uijdeg.jpg
Click to expand...

These work great and there is also a optical type. Fairly inexpensive too.
 
I need help

I need help

georgestolz said:
No, the receptacle inside the cabinet is perfectly fine.

I'd fail it for a 400.8(3). You are requiring the user to run their cord through a door or similar opening. :D


I'd tell the owner to either give me a location for a receptacle, or take it up with the AHJ. :)

I have to say, I'm impressed with the cleverness of the idea. I'd say it is compliant with 210.52. :cool:
Click to expand...

This is a very common problem,that needs to be addressed by the person responsible for the design of the kitchen.

When i inspect a island or counter that is so built that it is imposable to meet NEC requirements for receptacle installations,I leave it up to the building contractor or designer to provide a space for the required receptacles.

Builders,designers and cabinet makers need to made aware of the NEC requirements for receptacles. I feel that a box should be cut into the cabinets at the time it is built.it is much easier for the cabinet maker to do that in shop than it is for the electrician to do it on the job.

Given a few failed inspections, and cabinet rebuilds should make the designers make this problem go away.
 
210.52. Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets.


"receptacle outlets required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is part of a luminaire or appliance, located within cabinets or cupboards, or located more than1.7 m(5 1/2ft) above the floor.

Receptacles in the cabinets can't be counted as counter top receptacles
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top