I turned down a job

[knoppdude]

A few weeks ago, I met with someone who was doing a commercial remodeling job in a multiunit building, and the first thing out of his mouth was that there would be no permits on this job. I listened, and walked through the work with him anyway. He told me that was the reason that the windows were papered over. I asked if he had tested for asbestos, and he hadn't, but that if I knew how it was done, he would pay for it. He was adding a few walls, one of which was going to be 24 inches from his disconnect and panel. I kept listening, especially to the part where he said that he expected the work to meet code. I was tempted to bid this job, but then looked over my insurance papers, and called them. They highly "recommended" getting a permit to do the work. In the end, I refered the guy to another electrician. I found out later that the customer said I turned him down because my wife was afraid of asbestos, which is true, but not the reason I did not take the job, because I could hav had samples tested. I am wavering on turning him in to the building department code enforcement office. I helped this guy by finding him an out of work electrician, and this is what he does. What would you guys do?

 

[iwire]

Move on with my own life and not worry about what others do.

FWIW I think you made the wise choice to pass on that one.

 

[e57]

Act SWIFT'ly - let them contact whatever city it is in - and they'll swoop out of the sky like airborn pit vipers.... (Well I doubt it.... :roll

But you're buddy you hooked them up with - won't be happy, nor will the guy who called you in the first place. Had you not brought in someone you know - a call to the city or town would be just in order... But - since most of the permit bureaus around here lately are desperate for cash - a healthy fine or 10X permit fees looks attractive to them - they just might get caught anyway.

BTW - Apparently, arranging marriages between the unscrupulous and the unlicensed was fine before whatever very subtle rumor involving who wears the pants at your house, if thats the way you seem to see it? - Do you not see it as a little vindictive now?

 

[Cavie]

A few weeks ago, I met with someone who was doing a commercial remodeling job in a multiunit building, and the first thing out of his mouth was that there would be no permits on this job. I listened, and walked through the work with him anyway. He told me that was the reason that the windows were papered over. I asked if he had tested for asbestos, and he hadn't, but that if I knew how it was done, he would pay for it. He was adding a few walls, one of which was going to be 24 inches from his disconnect and panel. I kept listening, especially to the part where he said that he expected the work to meet code. I was tempted to bid this job, but then looked over my insurance papers, and called them. They highly "recommended" getting a permit to do the work. In the end, I refered the guy to another electrician. I found out later that the customer said I turned him down because my wife was afraid of asbestos, which is true, but not the reason I did not take the job, because I could hav had samples tested. I am wavering on turning him in to the building department code enforcement office. I helped this guy by finding him an out of work electrician, and this is what he does. What would you guys do?

When that job goes up in smoke for what ever reason and your buddy can't get paid because the GC got cought. Guess who your buddy is gonna come looking for.

 

[satcom]

A few weeks ago, I met with someone who was doing a commercial remodeling job in a multiunit building, and the first thing out of his mouth was that there would be no permits on this job.

Let me guess, he does not want to sign any contracts either, and when someone gets injures or worse on this dummies job he has no comp insurance, and I bet he also does not belive in paying taxes, the kind of guy you don't need to deal with, move on as suggested.

 

[growler]

the first thing out of his mouth was that there would be no permits on this job.

When that job goes up in smoke for what ever reason and your buddy can't get paid because the GC got cought. Guess who your buddy is gonna come looking for.

That's one of the reason that you want a permit on a job like this, it's really helps to make sure you get paid. A permit and a good contract and you may have a leg to stand on.

What are you going to do, draw up a nice contract with a stipulation that you are covered if discovered doing illegal work? Contracts that involve breaking the law are not that much good.

If I'm going to have to work like some sort of criminal I want to be paid like a criminal. Cash up-front and no paperwork.

I would turn this guy in for doing a commercial remodel without a permit. The more we let this sort of thing go on the worse it gets. For commercial I wouldn't need to go through code enforcement just a call to an inspector. It's not such a big deal for an inspector to go to a commercial job site the way it is for residential. If there is a dumpster out there and no permit in the window that's all that's needed.

 

[petersonra]

FWIW, I think choosing not to be involved was the right thing to do.

Now you need to continue doing the right thing and stay the heck out of whatever is going on there, and not do something out of spite that you might regret down the road.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

I think you did the correct thing in walking away. Let it ride however it wants to. This guy put it on the wheel and the wheel is round. It WILL roll around to the slot he dumped on and he will be there to catch it.

 

[480sparky]

If the job requires a permit, and I'm told by the owner that no permits are to be obtained, that's reason enough to walk away. Asbestos be dammed.

My license depends on my adherence to the rules. I'm not going to jeopardize my license, and hence my livelihood, to save someone else a few bucks. No way, no how.

I'm not going to tell you I think you did the right thing. I'll tell you I know you did the right thing.

 

[knoppdude]

Everyone of you guys is right, and thanks for pointing this out. I am walking away entirely, and leaving them alone. I guess I am being spiteful, or vengeful, which is wrong. Hopefully things work out for both the electrician, and the builder. I was honest with both of them, so if the electrician gets stiffed for any agreement he made with the guy he is working for, I can't take responsibility for that. Thanks for your responses, I will leave the situation alone.

 

[jaylectricity]

Also, there is no shame making decisions based on the well-being of your wife, even though I know that wasn't the real reason. There's no need to feel slighted by that rumor.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

BTW - Apparently, arranging marriages between the unscrupulous and the unlicensed was fine before whatever very subtle rumor involving who wears the pants at your house, if thats the way you seem to see it? - Do you not see it as a little vindictive now?

An astute analysis.

Also, there is no shame making decisions based on the well-being of your wife, even though I know that wasn't the real reason. There's no need to feel slighted by that rumor.

I 2nd that.

 

[rcarroll]

Papered windows? Dead give-away. We have 5 inspectors & each drive around 300 miles around town every week. We see papered windows, we pay a visit.

 

[knoppdude]

Act SWIFT'ly - let them contact whatever city it is in - and they'll swoop out of the sky like airborn pit vipers.... (Well I doubt it.... :roll

But you're buddy you hooked them up with - won't be happy, nor will the guy who called you in the first place. Had you not brought in someone you know - a call to the city or town would be just in order... But - since most of the permit bureaus around here lately are desperate for cash - a healthy fine or 10X permit fees looks attractive to them - they just might get caught anyway.

BTW - Apparently, arranging marriages between the unscrupulous and the unlicensed was fine before whatever very subtle rumor involving who wears the pants at your house, if thats the way you seem to see it? - Do you not see it as a little vindictive now?

e57, I never said that the other electrician was unlicensed. If the builder decides to hire him as an employee, he can be unlicensed, as the license for electrians rule only applies to electrical contractors. I also did not say that he was not an electrical contractor. What he works out with the builder is his business after they make contact. I will agree again that I was seeking revenge for what I thought was an outright lie by the builder. I am leaving it alone, and will not turn anyone in, because the time has passed to do it with good intentions. The other electrician is good, and will do fine if he takes the job. I also believe that the builder will pay whatever they agree to. Now onto who wears the pants in my house, well, my only function is to be the wallet, and that is about it. Thanks for showing me what I was doing, and why my motives were wrong. I sincerely mean this.

 

[e57]

e57, I never said that the other electrician was unlicensed. If the builder decides to hire him as an employee, he can be unlicensed, as the license for electrians rule only applies to electrical contractors. I also did not say that he was not an electrical contractor. What he works out with the builder is his business after they make contact. I will agree again that I was seeking revenge for what I thought was an outright lie by the builder. I am leaving it alone, and will not turn anyone in, because the time has passed to do it with good intentions. The other electrician is good, and will do fine if he takes the job. I also believe that the builder will pay whatever they agree to. Now onto who wears the pants in my house, well, my only function is to be the wallet, and that is about it. Thanks for showing me what I was doing, and why my motives were wrong. I sincerely mean this.

If he lacks a C-10 - he is by definition "unlicensed"... If he is 'certified' - he's allowed to be employed by a C-10.... Unlicensed he can legally work for <$500 for a total project. If he is hired and "employed" by a B-license carpenter hack - sorry.... Who feels he is a master of all trades.... Sorry... Who should... I'll just leave it there.... :roll: Then he is an "employee", and is not getting green money or a 1099 - and supervised by some labor dolin' b-license GC that bears all responsibilty.... Not that I need to mention all that - just venting about the lack of common sense in licensing laws in the golden state....

As to your pants - they're you own... As for whatever rumor mill about why you opted not to take the job... It is what it is - rumor, and turtle/duck backing that type of thing is the wise choice.

Have I mentioned the law suits and Home Depot that created the 3 trade crap???? How they were over turned by legislation and has been ignored.... Did I mention that?!?!?!? Different thread...

 

[Article 90.1]

Papered windows = we are hiding something. Other things inspectors take notice of: cranes, truss delivery trucks, dump trucks, concrete trucks...

 

[480sparky]

Papered windows = we are hiding something....

Not always for permit-dodging purposes, though. Many retailers don't want their potential customers eyeing the new store until opening day.

.....Other things inspectors take notice of: cranes, truss delivery trucks, dump trucks, concrete trucks...

30- and 40-yard dumpsters are a HUGE giveaway.

 

[Volta]

... 30- and 40-yard dumpsters are a HUGE giveaway.

That's what the dumpster-diving set says too!