petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
I wonder what this will cost to fix
- Thread starter petersonra
- Start date
- Status
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
That doesn't even make sense. I've seen firemen remove meters in a similar manner when the seal is padlocked. That's a CT meter, and pulling it didn't do a dog-gone thing to kill that power. I look at that picture and just ask myself, "why?".
That doesn't even make sense. I've seen firemen remove meters in a similar manner when the seal is padlocked. That's a CT meter, and pulling it didn't do a dog-gone thing to kill that power. I look at that picture and just ask myself, "why?".
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
Fixed one about 2 months ago. $400.00 The cabinet is looks fine from the picture. The meter enclosure is a replaceable unit. In our case the POCO replaced the wiring from the CTs to the meter base hardware. In fact they also install that (the red and black plastic and metal parts.)
On closer look, it almost looks like someone "stole" the meter. You might be able to get away with just a new meter cover and have the POCO install a new meter! All the CT wiring looks ok from here.
Fixed one about 2 months ago. $400.00 The cabinet is looks fine from the picture. The meter enclosure is a replaceable unit. In our case the POCO replaced the wiring from the CTs to the meter base hardware. In fact they also install that (the red and black plastic and metal parts.)
On closer look, it almost looks like someone "stole" the meter. You might be able to get away with just a new meter cover and have the POCO install a new meter! All the CT wiring looks ok from here.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
I'm wondering now if this metering equipment might have been installed in an alleyway and the metering head got clipped by a delivery truck or something along those lines.
I'm wondering now if this metering equipment might have been installed in an alleyway and the metering head got clipped by a delivery truck or something along those lines.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
I have to call them again in the morning because they only deal with non-emergency issues during business hours.
forklift got it. It was reported to Comed two days ago. Their record show that "meter glass is broken" so they don't consider it all that important.
I have to call them again in the morning because they only deal with non-emergency issues during business hours.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
OK, I'm just an engineer, and I don't understand. What is that red thing at the top of the box? Is this an attempt by someone to steal power, by bypassing the meter? Is it a disconnect that is being bypassed? What am I looking at?
OK, I'm just an engineer, and I don't understand. What is that red thing at the top of the box? Is this an attempt by someone to steal power, by bypassing the meter? Is it a disconnect that is being bypassed? What am I looking at?
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
I install meter pans and yank/connect meters fairly regularly, and the one in the picture is a new one on me. I'm also wondering how it works.
And Charlie, don't feel bad that you aren't an electrician. Being an engineer is good, too!
I install meter pans and yank/connect meters fairly regularly, and the one in the picture is a new one on me. I'm also wondering how it works.
And Charlie, don't feel bad that you aren't an electrician. Being an engineer is good, too!
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
the red thing is where the meter plugs in.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
What's all the stuff in the bottom of the pan? And how is it that pulling the meter doesn't kill power (according to mdshrunk)?
What's all the stuff in the bottom of the pan? And how is it that pulling the meter doesn't kill power (according to mdshrunk)?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
OK. So with that red thing being there (and I assume it's not suppose to be there), does that mean that the building is getting power, but the meter is not measuring it? Going back to the title of this thread, what is the thing that is in need of being fixed?
OK. So with that red thing being there (and I assume it's not suppose to be there), does that mean that the building is getting power, but the meter is not measuring it? Going back to the title of this thread, what is the thing that is in need of being fixed?
tx2step
Senior Member
- Location
- North Texas, DFW area
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
It looks like a CT metering setup to me. The power doesn't go through the meter. Current Transformers (donuts) are placed around the transformer tabs or around the conductors (sometimes in a separate CT cabinet). The meter reads the CTs. It works kind of like clamp-on amp meters.
Depending on the voltages involved, there may also be PT's (potential transformers) that feed the meter, too.
If you remove the meter in a CT metering system, then the meter just stops measuring power consumption -- it doesn't shut off the power to the building.
CT metering is usually employed for services that are larger then 400 Amp. When you get into the 600A and larger entrances, they don't make meters or meter bases that will allow the full amperage to feed through them.
Edited to add: The red thing would be the meter socket that the meter plugs into. The plug-in fingers are much smaller because all that's going to the meter is curent and voltage from CTs and PTs. It looks like the meter is still stuck in the meter cover that is hanging loose. You're seeing the back side of the meter. The bent-up cover just needs to be replaced and the meter plugged back in if there's no other damage.
It also looks like the CT meter base is mounted on the front of another larger box, which is probably a CT enclosure. In that case, the CTs would be in the larger box and the entrance conductors would be run through the donut shaped CTs ( 1 ea. CT per phase & N) in that box. Looks like 1 large conduit in from the bottom -- and probably feeds out through the back through the wall to the service main disconnect???
[ August 18, 2005, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]
It looks like a CT metering setup to me. The power doesn't go through the meter. Current Transformers (donuts) are placed around the transformer tabs or around the conductors (sometimes in a separate CT cabinet). The meter reads the CTs. It works kind of like clamp-on amp meters.
Depending on the voltages involved, there may also be PT's (potential transformers) that feed the meter, too.
If you remove the meter in a CT metering system, then the meter just stops measuring power consumption -- it doesn't shut off the power to the building.
CT metering is usually employed for services that are larger then 400 Amp. When you get into the 600A and larger entrances, they don't make meters or meter bases that will allow the full amperage to feed through them.
Edited to add: The red thing would be the meter socket that the meter plugs into. The plug-in fingers are much smaller because all that's going to the meter is curent and voltage from CTs and PTs. It looks like the meter is still stuck in the meter cover that is hanging loose. You're seeing the back side of the meter. The bent-up cover just needs to be replaced and the meter plugged back in if there's no other damage.
It also looks like the CT meter base is mounted on the front of another larger box, which is probably a CT enclosure. In that case, the CTs would be in the larger box and the entrance conductors would be run through the donut shaped CTs ( 1 ea. CT per phase & N) in that box. Looks like 1 large conduit in from the bottom -- and probably feeds out through the back through the wall to the service main disconnect???
[ August 18, 2005, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]
cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
Your presumptions are right on tx.
That is a meter socket mounted on the front of a CT cabinet. It looks like a 3" rigid coming into the bottom, so I'll guess this is a 400 amp 3 phase service. The half inch out of the bottom is for the ground conductor. The secondary cables exit through a nipple in the rear of the cabinet (I notice the original poster mentioed Com Ed as the POCO. That would put this install in or near Chicago. Chicago frowns upon outdoor LB's, so the nipple through the back of the tub is pretty standard... unless you can't make it work, then you wind up hacking the snot out of the wall and using a 90. The masons really love that last trick.)
Your presumptions are right on tx.
That is a meter socket mounted on the front of a CT cabinet. It looks like a 3" rigid coming into the bottom, so I'll guess this is a 400 amp 3 phase service. The half inch out of the bottom is for the ground conductor. The secondary cables exit through a nipple in the rear of the cabinet (I notice the original poster mentioed Com Ed as the POCO. That would put this install in or near Chicago. Chicago frowns upon outdoor LB's, so the nipple through the back of the tub is pretty standard... unless you can't make it work, then you wind up hacking the snot out of the wall and using a 90. The masons really love that last trick.)
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
TX has it right ,it is a CT
What i dislike it there is no way to disconnect the power on some of them.We installed one few months ago and the MDP was in the middle of the building.Hope if it ever has a fire that poco gets there fast to pull the fuse out of ground transformer 5 feet away.
Check out the price on that can.It is over $300.
[ August 18, 2005, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
TX has it right ,it is a CT
What i dislike it there is no way to disconnect the power on some of them.We installed one few months ago and the MDP was in the middle of the building.Hope if it ever has a fire that poco gets there fast to pull the fuse out of ground transformer 5 feet away.
Check out the price on that can.It is over $300.
[ August 18, 2005, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
tx2step
Senior Member
- Location
- North Texas, DFW area
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
What does Chicago have against outdoor LB's? I'd think that they are a lot better than butchering a wall to put in a 3" elbow -- or even worse, a 4" elbow? What gives?
Yikes!!! What a pain!
What does Chicago have against outdoor LB's? I'd think that they are a lot better than butchering a wall to put in a 3" elbow -- or even worse, a 4" elbow? What gives?cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
The rest of the objection is that it provides access to the service cable, which could lead a less than bright thief to pull the LB cover and attempt to pull the cable out. After All, we can't have common theives electrocuting themselves
Well, if you were to wander around a major metropolitan area, you'd be shocked at how many LB covers are missing. this is especially true of the aluminum variety, as those are readily recyclable. Now, you might think it strange that a person would swipe an LB cover for the 5 cents it would bring at a scrap yard, but that's why the theives live in the slums and you don't.Originally posted by tx2step:
Yikes!!! What a pain!
The rest of the objection is that it provides access to the service cable, which could lead a less than bright thief to pull the LB cover and attempt to pull the cable out. After All, we can't have common theives electrocuting themselves
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
This is a good idea, here in this area we are allowed to use conduit bodies and even junction boxes exposed to the public.
cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
You just don't understand Chicago Bob. You must remember, criminals vote (as do dead people.) We must take steps to assure their safety, thus assuring enough votes for reelection.
You just don't understand Chicago Bob. You must remember, criminals vote (as do dead people.) We must take steps to assure their safety, thus assuring enough votes for reelection.
william runkle
Senior Member
- Location
- Michigan
Re: I wonder what this will cost to fix
Cost will be determined by Com-Ed if they have replacement parts or not. They might be a little more quicker to fix this problem since it is giving away free electricity I would like to see some protection since the amperage lugs on that c.t. carries an unstable voltage without a shunt and the voltage lugs will give a good bite.
Cost will be determined by Com-Ed if they have replacement parts or not. They might be a little more quicker to fix this problem since it is giving away free electricity I would like to see some protection since the amperage lugs on that c.t. carries an unstable voltage without a shunt and the voltage lugs will give a good bite.
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